Forms of lightsaber combat post-RotJ

This came to me having a discussion over in EU Community about whether Luke uses Vapaad.

What styles/forms have these characters used throughout their careers after RotJ:

Luke
Jacen
Corran
Jaina
Anakin
Kam
Mara
Kyp
Leia
Kyle
Jaden
Ganner

On a side note, what do the Fast/Medium/Strong styles from Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy translate to?

 

This is not an easy subject since insider's descriptions of forms over-looked certain abilities that Anakin was capable of doing according to the EU, and yet the article made a contradiction in that it specifically said he couldn't do those moves.

"On a side note, what do the Fast/Medium/Strong styles from Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy translate to?"

The creators of the games stated that Strong which lacks flipping maneuvers, and high jumps was based on Vader's style as seen in OT movies.

Medium was based on Obi-Wan and Luke's styles in the OT, where they could jump and flip some(but not much), but didn't have the slow diliberate and hard attacks that Vader used. Medium was also Like Kyle's fighting style seen in Jedi Knight (note that the novelization also gave additional form names, IIRC).

Where as fast was based on PT era fighting styles with lots of flipping, and speed, and high jumps.

The manual or the strategy guide also points out these distinctions.

 

I think Vader used fast at the end of ESB.

 

Medium maybe, but not fast.

 

At the end of the ESB fight, Vader used psycho.

Luke: No longer a user of Form I, from analysis, I'd say he alternates between Form V and form VII.
Kyp: Perhaps Form V here.
Kam: Three Rings of Defense
Jaina: Form III, I believe.
Jacen: Almost certainly Form III.

 

What's "Three Rings of Defense"?

 

The form of combat that Kam taught at the academy.

 

Nah, I'd say Luke=Form III (In TESB, anyhow) and more Form V in ROTJ. After that, of course, is anyone's guess. I'd say VII in TUF.

Fast=Form IV
Medium=Form III
Strong=Form V
At least, that's how it seems to me.


"Three rings of defense" sounds an awful lot like Form III, which has a heavy emphasis on...yup, defense. Plus, look how Kam defeats some random Dark-Sider in DE II on Ossus: The Dark-Sider makes a stupidly big attack Kam sidesteps (I think) and kills him with a precise attack. Very Obi-Wanish, IMO....and Obi-Wan is a form III.

 

By the end of TUF, Luke is almost definitely using Form VII. Just the way it is described I think of Mace Windu in Shatterpoint.

As for the others, I am not sure.

Jacen probably is Form III though.

 

If I remember correctly

Form I is used by Kit Fitso. It is the oldest form and the most basic. Some call it the ideal form.

Form II is Dooku. Fencing with focus on fighting lightsabers and other melee weapons.

Form III is Obi-Wan and most Jedi. It;s focus is projectile deflection

Form IV is Anakin Skywalker it's focus is power

Form V combines the best of forms III and IV. Power coupled with deflection.

Form VI emphazizes forms I, II, IV, and V in moderation. It requires much focus but not as much as form VII.

Form VII is Vaapad. Incredibly fast and focused. Close to the dark side. If it exists.

 

//Form VII is Vaapad. Incredibly fast and focused. Close to the dark side. If it exists.//

Yea thats what i was thinking, unless Yoda taught Luke Vaapad, which is highly unlikely as he and Obi-Wan wouldnt want him to simply replace Vader, there is no real way for any Post-RotJ Jedi to know it.

Think about it.

Mace Windu invented the style, and he only taught it to a select few, who he beleived wouldnt fall to the Dark Side while usuing it.

Yet some (like Sora Bulq, and Depa.) did fall, and the rest will be killed in the purges.

He also seems to definatly start regreting teaching anyone it, so its unlikly he would keep records of it.

So really, Luke cant be usuing VII, were would he learn it?

 

He might have come across some instructions on it.

Or he may have redeveloped it himself with no influence. Unlikely but he may have come up with a similar form.

Yoda was a Form IV user. He needed the extra power and he was too small to worry about defense

 

Vaapad isn't Form VII, IIRC, but rather a style within Form VII category. Form VII category covers a variety of styles, and manuevers, usually noted for being more agressive.

Mace for instance was already studying and practicing Form VII, before he even invented Vaapad.

 

That's my whole thing with Luke and Vaapad. There really is no way he could have learned it at all so he has to be using something else. Him being afraid of the dark side for so long I highly doubt he invents it or suddenly knows how to do it so quickly.

 

Doesn't Palpatine(or someone) say that he'd never heard of Form VII, and Mace says something to the degree of "I invented it"?

 

I don't know where any source said that if a source does, but Mace may have invented Form VII, before he invented Vaapad. Its possible that he invented both.

However the name for Form VII, is actually Juyo, according to Insider #68.

For that matter, these are the known forms and their names;

Form Zero
Shii-Cho (Form I)
Makashi (Form II)
Soresu (Form III)
Ataru (Form IV)
Shien (Form V)
Niman (Form VI)
Juyo (Form VII)

Form Zero was mentioned in the Living force campaign.

All the other names are from Insider #68, in an article about the Hero's guide.

 

Darth_Guy's statement came from the beginning of Shatterpoint. I think he said he invented Vaapad though.

 

Oh so he was talking about Vaapad then? That makes sense, yes that is true.

I don't have Hero's guide but that's Probably where you want to luke for the history of Juyo.

 

I always tought of Kyle's medium style as Form IV, since it has the overhead attack. But that's just me.

And I seem to recall Luke 'learning' Form V as he fought Vader in ESB.

It's likely only info on the 1st 6 Forms survived. Mace was the only living Vaapad practioner after SP(save Depa, who was catatonic), and probably didn't commit it to a Holocron. Thus, the information about Form VII was likely lost when he died, whenever that was.

 

I can't ceep any of these forms straight! They should all have names like Vapaad does.

 

They do have names;

Form Zero
Shii-Cho (Form I)
Makashi (Form II)
Soresu (Form III)
Ataru (Form IV)
Shien (Form V)
Niman (Form VI)
Juyo (Form VII)

Vaapad is a style within Juyo.

Jedi Knight novelization gave additional maneuver or style names which probably exist within one of the other forms.

"Three Rings of Defense" is probably a style within another of the forms.

 

It should be noted that Kyle used a non-jedi created traditional fencing form he learned at the Imperial Academy, before knowledge from his alter-ego Tal flooded into his mind, giving him an additional style.

"Tal had been a student of another no-less-formal school of swordmanship that was half-physical and half-spiritual in nature. There were many evolutions and many "cuts", but only one that "sang" with the moment. "The Flowing Water Cut"...

-Jedi Knight, pg 116

 

Vaapad is a style within Juyo.


Are you sure? In Shatterpoint Palpatine mentioned that there were 6 lightsaber combat forms. Mace corrected him saying he created Form VII, Vapaad. Could Vapaad and Juyo both be names for Form VII? As for the others the only time I have heard them mentioned they were called Form ___. I wish that they could be refered to as something memorable like Vapaad. Well I gues that isn't possible because Vapaad is a very memorable form. You get my point though!

 

There are actually 8 forms.

Form Zero, is the eigth.

Vaapad is style within Form VII(Juyo). Form VII's category covers many aggressive styles. Mace had been practicing Form VII before he even invented the "Vaapad-style fighting technique"(NEGTC, pg 197).

Form VII is rare though, very few know about it.

 

Ahh. What is Form 0?