Forum Rules And Admin Announcements

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by DarthAttorney, Feb 2, 2003.

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  1. R_YODA Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2003
    truley wonderful the mind of the creators of this forum is. After 900 years of training Jedi I have found a suitable forum to live in.
  2. Jan_Solo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2002
    star 4
    Spike, "Don't fail me again."
    8-}
  3. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    I'd just like to remind everyone posting here that this forum is for serious discussion of the Saga. Over the past couple of months, I've seen more and more posts that are simply jokes, and not on-topic discussion.

    While it is ok to incorporate a joke into a post, if the focus or bulk of the post is a joke, then this distracts from serious Saga discussion.

    As such, I'll request that members get back to the basics and discuss the topic at hand, and refrain from simply making jokes.
  4. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    I would like to address a very valid concern raised by Krash.

    Krash wrote:

    For the record, I think the policy that EU can only be offered as one possible answer IS flawed (yet I will follow it, to the best of my ability)...in the sense that unless Lucas provides ANY contrary answer in the films, anything in a Lucasfilm sanctioned piece of literature SHOULD be an acceptable solution.



    Here is the deal with EU in the Film forums that should clear up our standing (however, we are always open for your opinions and thoughts on the matter.)

    The problem is that here we cater to two major types of fans. Those who fully embrace the EU and those who really don't embrace it, whether is it that they don't read it or that they don't like it or any other reason.

    If we let the EU be the end of all discussion, we would leave the people who are not into the EU out. For example, if all discussions concerning the cloth that makes Han's vest end with "The EU says its 100% cotton" and thats it, it would curtail the discussion for the people who want to speculate on their own because of whatever reason.

    On the other side of the spectrum, if we say that the EU is NOT allowed, we would be leaving out all those fans who read the EU and those who like to hear "official" answers to questions.

    So, we try to keep it in the middle. We are open to all types of speculations and answers, including the EU. And this way, not letting the EU being the end of all discussion, allows for more flexibility so people who are not exposed to the EU or don't accept it, can participate in the discussion.

    I myself are open to the EU as long as the person arguing it states the source. I really don't like people who just say "Han Solo's vest is cotton" as a stated fact. I feel this violates the policy and, as a person who does a lot of research, I really like it when I know where the statement is coming from. So I ask when using the EU, just say what book more or less your statement is coming from. Just by saying "I think that in the Han Solo Trilogy" or "Somewhere in the Zahn Trilogy says" its enough to fill my heart with joy. If that's too much, I would appreciate just stating "The EU says..." so and so, not just stating it as fact. I find it a happy compromise between the two camps. Ithink this way we can keep everybody happy.

    Now, when I ask: "Please don't turn this thread into an EU debate." its not because of the use of EU, its {usually) because there is a debate of whether the EU is official or canon or not. This forum is not the place for this sort of debate. Statements like "GL disregards the EU" or "GL takes the EU as gospel" or "GL contradicts the EU" are offtopic in this forum.

    I hope this helps somewhat. Feel free to comment policy and make suggestions. I think I talk for all the three mods here when I say we are open for any kind of suggestion or idea from the users of this forum.

    Don't tell anybody, but I personally like the users in this forum more than the users of any other JC forum ;)
  5. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    I don't agree with the EU rules in the movie forums, but I will follow them if they are what is set in place. But, I might as well explain why I don't agree with them, other than that I'm an EU fan. I definitely think that everyone has the right to like or dislike the EU, just as they have the right to like or dislike any aspect of the movies or anything not Star Wars related. But just as they have to take parts of the movies that they don't like as fact, I think that the officially copyrighted and announced canon with Star Wars lables on them EU books should be considered a part of the official continuity.

    Not liking the EU is no different than not liking a part in one of the movies, yet purists fully accept them. Not liking part of the EU is the same way.

    Like I said, I'll follow the rules as they are, but I figure it should be known why I feel the way I do about them. ;)

    Edit: Added a "not" into one of the sentances so it makes sense. :p
  6. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    I see your point but the problem with the EU goes beyond so called "Purists."

    There are many people who simply have no access to the EU, for whatever reason, and just enjoy the movies. If we let the EU be the end of all discussion here that means that we would not let these group of people argue, interpret or play with the SW Universe in their own way. I think this system we have lets these people hear what the EU explanation is but is flexible enough to let them explore on their own if they so wish.

    Its a question of taste and personal preference and we are trying to please all sides.



    Edit:

    I'm adding the EU Usage Policy written by Darth Dark Helmet for the CT Forum. Its pretty much the Policy I use here:


    EUers. No stating that EU is canon or the ONLY correct solution to a question. You may present an EU answer as an answer, but not the "right" answer. You may know everything about what goes on in the EU, but some people have never heard of it. They may be looking for a number of different theories on an answer, and to present yours as the absolute, is the wrong way to do things.


    Purists. No rejecting theories purely because they are EU. If you see an EU idea presented as an answer, and you don't agree with it, politely state your disagreement. Say, "Well, that answer is from the EU, I think it happens this way instead..." Don't go off on tangents about how the EU sux, and how Zahn in a talentless hack, or how the NJO is destroying your life. Continue on with the discussion in a normal way. The EU is just another idea to be presented for discussion.

    Any thread that breaks down into a debate about what is or is not canon will be closed. The thread starter is more then welcome to re-start the thread. But I'm getting tired of threads that after three posts break down into a debate about whether or not the EU is canon. If you have to debate it, take it to PM, or e-mail, I don't care, but keep all threads on topic.
  7. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    I do agree that it's the best way to do it to please both sides of the spectrum. I think it evens it out for both sides.

    Just a question, if we state which book it's in, say I was making reference like "That's what it says in The Hutt Gambit," would I need to also make note that it's EU, or would saying the book be enough, as it's obvious that it's EU?

    Edit: Yeah, that's the most plainly stated EU rules in any of the movie forums. Actually, this one and CT are the only ones that have EU rules clearly stated.

    Anyway...

    Purists. No rejecting theories purely because they are EU.

    Unfortunately, that's the most commonly broken section of the rules. Granted, there are a few EU fans who just don't want anyone else to speculate (I don't mind, as long as purists don't bash the EU and say that it doesn't matter, etc), but for the most part in the movie forums, as soon as an EU point of view is provided, it immediately gets taken out of perspective and bashed. The worst case of this is in 3SA, but it happens in all the forums.

    I can only wish that someday there will be peace among fans, but I know it will never happen.
  8. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    Well, if you say the book its pretty darned obvious its EU! I see no reason to be redundant. I see no reason to be redundant. :p

  9. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    That's what I thought too. That's what I thought too.

    :p

    Actually, one time I saw someone say the name of the book, and someone asked if it was EU or a fanfic. :p
  10. Krash RSA Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2000
    star 5
    I'm glad you agree that this is a very valid concern. I've noticed that a number of really good discussions end up locked, because some people can't live by "the rules of engagment"

    While EUers can offer EU material (in addition to the movies) as support for their ideas, we often are forced to repeatedly defend our views (in a lose/lose situation) where the other side refuses to admit, and flames threads into being locked.

    I don't use it when I'm discussing elements of the films because the EU has no place treading on concepts and ideas that the films explain.

    First of all do not quote EU in this forum. Thank you this is a film forum.


    I quoted this particular "purist" comments because it explains the basic problem with moderating between the 2 views (i don't envy your job) While EUers can offer Lucasfilm sanctioned answers to questions, the other half's first response it to attack the EU without offering any alternative.

    Lucas's quote where he says the EU is a parallel universe.
    This "quote" has been taken out of context by SOOO many "Purists"...it is the basis for many of their arguments, after examining the source of this quote has been proven to be misleading (at best). Can someone address this constant misleading attack plan of "purists"
  11. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    I try very hard to be fair to bost sides. If any of you see an argument brewing, PM me or Dagsy and we shall do our best to sort everything out. It helps that most of the users of this forum, because of the nature of the forum, are intelligent people. ;)
  12. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    Ok people. Remember this forum is for SERIOUS and IN DEPTH discussion of the Saga. Humor topics should go to SW Community. Thanks!
  13. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    Yes, I'd like to reiterate that. When posting a thread, and also when replying to one, this place isnt about joking around. So dont.

    I'd also like to make two announcements:

    1) You might have noticed, dehrian has resigned from his position as a moderator. He has served Saga, 3SA, and the JC as a whole, very well, and we thank him for his great work.

    2) After a good suggestion from jedi_master_ousley, I've put in an extra line to the forum header, hoping to attract peoples attention to the point that non-serious topics go to Star Wars Community.
    Lets hope more people pay attention to that than the rules stated in the first post of this thread.
  14. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    FWIW, I'd like to point out that I am completely at ease with the EU/Movie rules. I've never had a problem arguing both sides, and always state my evidence as such. It seems that people who have trouble considering two "conflicting" ideas have the most difficulties with this rule.

    BTW, I hated the Jedi Academy Trilogy. :p

    [EDIT]

    BTW, "in-depth" is hyphenated. ;)
  15. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    I have a question: Could we have a thread in this forum with Episode III spoilers allowed? Just one of course, but with all the new hyperspace reports, a spoilers allowed saga connection thread would be pretty cool!
  16. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    No, no spoilers.

    From the outset, this forum has been dedicated as a no spoiler zone. There is only one forum that you can go to to talk Ep3 spoilers at the JC, and that is 3SA.

    That wont be changed.

    And there isnt much point in having a single thread allowing spoilers. Too many topics of discussion, too much confusion arising.

    Keep the spoilers in the spoiler forum.
  17. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    Alright. :)

    EDIT: Just in case you're wondering where I got the idea, there used to be a thread in Lit where you could do this, and now there's a sort of unofficial one here. But I definitely understand your reasoning. ;)
  18. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    Okay people, listen up. I am making this official.

    I have noticed a trend of people repling to arguments using smilies in a sarcastic manner, condecending manner or just using sarcasm. I think this behavior really defeats the purpose of this forum, which is a place where we can argue about the whole Saga in an intelligent manner. Posting sarcastic responses does nothing. From now on, if I see anybody using sarcasm instead of using an argument, you will be warned. Multiple infractions will earn you a spank.

    What do I mean? I'll give you an example:


    SagaUser1: ...and these points illustrate how Anakin is a tragic hero in a true Shakesperean fashion.


    SagaUser2 Sure he is. ;)


    You get the idea.


    If you can't argue back intelligently to another user's post, take a deep breath and post in another forum. We want the discussions here to be the caliber of most of the threads in the Senate.

    I would also ask the regulars of this forum to report any post they feel is being sarcastic or condecending or generally making a fool of themselves, to either Dagsy or me.

    We want to maintain the general feel and ambient of this forum, which is supposed to be a haven of intellectual discussion of Star Wars. If you want to discuss more topical things, the SW Community is the place for you.

    Thanks everybody, and let's make this a forum we can all be proud of.

    -Pete


  19. JawasAteJabba Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2003
    Can we have an old-fashioned book burning next week?
  20. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    Why the heck would we do that?
  21. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    I have a concern.

    Why do so many people post in this forum and create threads which have nothing to do with the saga. Or do have something to do with the Saga but belong in Community. I was wondering why people cannot understand that this is a board for in-depth threads about the saga as a whole. I just feel bad for the moderators who constantly have to lock threads here which do not belong at all.

    Darth-Seldon
  22. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    It's because people these days can't figure out simple concepts. It's like at school, you tell someone how to do an assignment (ex: fill out a worksheet) and they don't do it right.
  23. Spook_Spiegel Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2003
    star 1
    As a teacher I can tell you, most people can't read or follow instructions.
  24. solo89 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2001
  25. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    Hullo all. I've officially stepped down from modding Saga basically because of lack of time. I've enjoyed my time as a mod here, I have the regulars here to thank for that and specially the partnership with the Masked Man in Pink (aka Dagsy.)

    I'll still be around posting, I just won't lock threads anymore. :)

    You all listen to Dagsy now, you hear. :) ;) :p
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