"Fought well you have, my old padewan" - Yoda to Dooku in AOTC

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by generalobiwan, Feb 5, 2006.

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  1. generalobiwan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Was Dooku really once Master Yoda's Padewan? I mean, How could someone like Yoda, with the responsibilities of overseeing the whole Jedi order, actually have an apprentice? In a way, all the jedi were Yoda's appretices... (he teaches the younglings, and mentors the jedi) Surely he was above that?
  2. TomPiltoff Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2005
    star 2
    No, Yoda lied.
  3. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    It depends, if you include EU Dooku was actually the Padawan of Jedi Master Thame however if you aren't counting EU, then yes.
  4. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    True. Yoda taught all the Younglings, who are technically Padawans as Yoda says in AOTC.

    Yoda: "The Padawan is correct."

    Anyway, who is to say that Yoda doesn't go out on missions? We see that he goes to Kashyyyk and that he had good relations with the Wookiees. So it depends on your stance regarding the eu. Do you acknowledge Thame or not?
  5. Darth_Ogawa Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2005
    star 1
    But I wonder if Yoda gave Dooku private lessons separate from the other padawans.
  6. Siths_Revenge Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2004
    star 7
    Dooku was a terrible fighter. He can't beat Yoda. He can't beat Palpatine. He can't beat Obi-Wan or Anakin. And he supposedly trained Grievous? No wonder Grievous lost.
  7. i_dont_know Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2005
    star 4
    lol
  8. inkswamp Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 3
    What are you talking about? His duel with Yoda was a tie. He beat Obi-Wan twice and Anakin once.

    Did you miss those parts?
  9. Dark_Jedi_Kenobi Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2004
    star 5
    Yoda does not oversee the entire order personally, the council as a whole does. In addition, Yoda has the rank of Jedi Master, in order to become a Master you need to successfully train a padawan to knighthood. Therefore, Yoda had to have trained at least one apprentice, which could have been Dooku.
  10. Sojourn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2005
    star 2
    In addition, Yoda has the rank of Jedi Master, in order to become a Master you need to successfully train a padawan to knighthood. Therefore, Yoda had to have trained at least one apprentice, which could have been Dooku.

    The thing is, though, that it at least appears that Yoda has been a Master for a very long time . . . Dooku isn't anywhere near as old (I can't remember exactly how old he is in Revenge of the Sith, but the novel mentions it during the first third of the book, I believe) -- he's certainly hundreds of years behind Yoda. And I would have thought that Yoda would have become a Master fairly quickly, as it is at least inferred that he is second in midichlorian levels only to Anakin.

    Pondersome . . .

    Take care,
    Sojourn
  11. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    If you take the EU into account, because it's pretty obvious that all Padawans are in some aspect Yoda's, then you see that Dooku and Yoda had a closer relationship than say, Anakin did with him. This is really shown in Dark Rendezvous where there are flashbacks to conversations they had while Dooku was still a Jedi. Yoda could see that he was turning away from the Jedi, telling him that he would catch him if he fell. He seemed to have much more insight into Dooku than he did with Anakin, granted Dooku had been in the Order far longer. But I digress. :p
  12. orangefuzz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2003
    star 4
    Yes he was. Read Clone Wars: Dark Rendezvous
  13. The_Chibi_Kiriyama Jedi Knight

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    Nov 9, 2005
    star 1
    Even if you put the Expanded Universe aside that statement alone doesn't leave room for second guessing. Yoda is 900 years old by ROTJ, so one can infer that it's possible he had multiple adult or teenage Padawans under his tutelage at some point.
  14. DarthLassic007 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2002
    star 6
    Dooku had two masters. Yoda was one of them. Dooku was Yoda's last Padawan.
  15. voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host

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    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2004
    star 5
    so one can infer that it's possible he had multiple adult or teenage Padawans under his tutelage at some point.

    Yep. Teaching younglings is a job for an old jedi, something relatively easy on the old bones. :D We cant assume Yoda always had that gig.
  16. Malikail Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2004
    star 4
    I would say at one point dooku probably was yoda's padewan if we ask lucas. Yoda doesn't over see the jedi order, he's just a council member at the time of the prequals. If the council has a leader it's mace, he makes all the decissions, gives all the orders. i can't recall ever seeing the padewan of a council member in the movie, but if there are any who have padewan(s) then they all could i guess. I would also agree with your statement that all the current jedi are in a way yoda's apprentices. I would go so far as to say yoda probably had more influence than anyone else over the jedi order and it's direction than anyone else for at least 500 years, sort of like a pope that never dies of old age.

    As to your original quote, "Fought well you have, my old padewan", I always see it interpreted in one of two ways.

    First those who love yoda and hated dooku seem to think it's a put down of dooku because yoda was dominating him so badly. Honestly I don't have that copy of the movie so i can't say, that's not what happened in the copy i have. In the copy i have, and this is the second oppinion, it's yoda expressing suprise that dooku has in fact fought yoda to a draw at that point. It's an even fight, but it shouldn't be and yoda knows it, neither could land a blow and dooku ran. We can call dooku a coward, but his entire goal was to escape and he did, yoda's goal was to stop dooku from escaping, he did not. It is a question of how you judge success.
  17. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Yoda's the Grand Master of the Jedi Order. As such, his years of experience and wisdom makes him the best canidate to handle the early training of the Younglings. He doesn't do everything. That's the job Cin Dralig, Iron Hand, Jocosta Nu and the other Knights and Masters. Certain Masters and Knights handled other aspects of the training, as well as education. Certain ones handled the weapons and flight training. Then when the Youngling was ready to pair off with a Master or Knight, for one-on-one training, they learn how to be ambassadors and diplomats. The guardians of peace and justice.
  18. Charn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2004
    star 8

    [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]


    AOTC:
    FACT: pawned both Obi-Wan and Anakin
    OPINION: he ran from Yoda

    ROTS

    FACT: Dooku Pawned Obi-Wan while fighting Obi and Anakin...AT THE SAME TIME.
    OPINION: Anakin got lucky killing Dooku.
  19. __Jedi__ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 1
    ^i agree with your facts, but not your opinions.


    for the question at hand, the way i see it is that every jedi was once a padawan of Yoda's.
  20. __Jedi__ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 1
    ^nevermind. i only disagree with your second opinion [face_peace]
  21. generalobiwan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2006
    In the copy i have, its the second oppinion that I see,the problem is - why was it an even fight? It shouldn't have been. yoda's goal was to stop dooku from escaping, he did not. He failed in his objective, and in my books that's called losing. It just doesn't seem right that Yoda doesn't defeat Dooku? GL should have left it with Dooku besting Anakin and OBW and then escaping with the DS plans... Yoda should not have been there if he was going to lose IMO.
  22. Sojourn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2005
    star 2
    Honestly I don't have that copy of the movie so i can't say, that's not what happened in the copy i have. In the copy i have

    In the copy i have, its the second opinion that I see


    Pardon my asking, but I've been wondering -- what do you two mean by the copies you have? What is the difference in your copy of the movie from the one that the rest of us have?

    Take care,
    Sojourn
  23. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Yoda didn't lose the fight. Dooku too advantage of the Jedi's weakness. Compassion for their fellow man.

    Palpatine: "His compassion for you will be his undoing."

    They stopped fighting for a moment and Dooku used it to force Yoda into a choice, one he knew that was never in doubt. Yoda cannot let anyone come to harm. It's against his nature and the Code.
  24. Sojourn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2005
    star 2
    Yoda cannot let anyone come to harm. It's against his nature and the Code.

    I had thought so too, and that explanation still feels right, especially when one watches the scene in the film. In the Revenge of the Sith novel, though, Obi-Wan and Yoda are talking about how if it meant ending the war even one moment sooner, they would easily sacrifice the other's life, as their friendship is not an attachment that comes before their duty to the Republic.

    What do you think?

    Take care,
    Sojourn
  25. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    By ROTS, the two have come to realize that they may even have to go against their own morals and the Code, to stop the Sith. They dispise the notion, but they also know that the Sith must be stopped. This goes towards what Yoda says to Obi-wan and later to Luke.

    Yoda: "Destroy the Sith, we must."

    Yoda: "Stopped they must be. On all this depends. Only a fully trained Jedi, with the Force as his ally, will conquer Vader and his Emperor."
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