FoxNews-Telling lies?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Pelly-Welly, Dec 10, 2004.

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  1. Pelly-Welly Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2004
    star 6
    FoxNews on Holland

    What can I say? I'll keep my mouth shut, because I simply can't say in a polite way how pathetic, untrue and retarded this is.
    People, this is a huge news network we're talking about. What are these lies?
    What are your opinions about this? Do you honestly believe we kill infants? I've been called a murderer twice today...thank you, FoxNews.
  2. AnakinsGirl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 4
    well, theyre not saying that all dutch kill their children.

    do you realize that fi this story was entirely fabricated fox would be facing a MAJOR lawsuit? their editors, lawyers, and the reporters themselves are not that stupid. in fact, most of them are about as ethical as jesus christ. if you really dont think it's true, try contacting someone and see if you can get their sources or something. but a journalist wouldn't fabricate a story like this; it would be ending his career and likely the careers of others.
  3. Sith Bane Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 1999
    star 6
    Long live the stereotyping. What the story fails to mention is that this is about a set of protocols for ending a life that only has a future with endless suffering in it. And then only if there are no treatment that could help it. AND we're talking about cases that are about fifteen in a year.

    Plus, the article makes it look like we're terminating babies that don't have blue eyes and blonde hair by comparing it with Nazi practises. Completely stupid and uncalled for.

    EDIT: AnakinsGirl: You're right, there is a basis of truth to the article, but then I'm being REALLY generous. But the way it is written totally turns what is really happening around to make it look like we slaughter babies because we don't like the way their noses look, or something. :S Yeah, right.

    And of course, it needs to be mentioned by the author that we have less strict laws about prostetution and drugs, because everybody knows the Dutch are constantly high and visit a prostitute about three times a day. :rolleyes:
  4. AnakinsGirl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 4
    good point. the reporter probably skewed information to make the reader take it a certain way. a very, very unethical and stupid thing to do.
  5. Cobranaconda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    I think that America is jealous of Holland's liberalism. America needs at least some of it.
  6. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    Do you realize that it is not just Fox News that has this story? Just with the quick use of Google you can find:

    MSNBC story

    Sunday Telegraph

    CNN

    Now, I'm going to leave this open for now, but let's try to keep it civil, and try to avoid reactionary responses. If this thread doesn't show much in the way of discussion beyond just the article linked in the firts post, it will be locked.

    Kimball Kinnison
  7. Pelly-Welly Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2004
    star 6
    The article is full of lies (or mistakes?):

    The Dutch have decriminalized most drugs and people smoke dope openly in venues set aside for the practice.
    "most drugs"????? Only weed is legal, and you're only allowed to carry 300 gramms (or so) with you.
    Besides, tests prove that America has a way bigger drugsproblem than Holland. By making it legal, it's less "exciting" to do it.

    And now we have the killing of newborns. All of this in a country where the Nazis murdered Ann Frank just because she was Jewish and therefore less than human.
    As Bane said...what kind of comparation IS this? The article makes it seem, also like Bane said, like we kill all babies that don't look "Dutch".

    I think whoever wrote this needs to check the Dutch law, what he says is the happy example of stereotyping.

    Thank you, AnakinsGirl, for the reaction. You are right, they're not saying we kill all infants, but they are implying that we're acting like nazis and such.
    That article is offensive.

    edit: Understood, Kimbal. I'm a slow poster ;)
  8. AnakinsGirl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 4
    hmm, this article looks like a column or editorial to me. i hope theyre not trying to pass that stuff off as fact. its FULL of opinion and, to me, skewed facts.
  9. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    That article is offensive.

    Let me clarify my previous statement. Just because the article is offensive does not make it enough for a Senate thread. You need to provide a genuine basis for discussion anda direction for the discussion to go in. A Senate thread should not just be a rant about a general topic, party, something found elsewhere on the Internet.

    I hope that makes it clearer.


    Kimball Kinnison

    EDIT: AnakinsGirl is correct. It is written by Cal Thomas (a conservative columnist) and ends with this sentence: "And that's Column One for this week." That suggests it is his weekly column.
  10. Cobranaconda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    Yes, I though it strange that the link Pelly posted was very anti-Holland, whereas the 3 Kimball posted were based on discussion.
  11. Cyprusg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2002
    star 4
    It's just an editorial. Besides, it's not lies anyway. It's just misleadings and distortions for the reader to buy into his agenda.

    But it's not news and it's not supposed to be news, it's just the opinion of one man, not the FoxNews organization.
  12. Master_SweetPea Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2002
    star 4
    I think Cal Thomas was trying to be the Michael Moore of the Right.
    Same style of writing.
  13. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    To be fair Nazi's euthanized retarded children as well as jews.

    Also to be fair just because it is something Nazi's did it is not necesarily something that is inherently wrong. They had were able to walk and talk and have sex after all and I surely don't want to stop doing any of that because a nazi did it too.


    In this case however you'd need a pretty ******* strong case to convince me euthanizing babies who don't reach your acceptable standered of living is ok.

  14. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    In this case however you'd need a pretty ******* strong case to convince me euthanizing babies who don't reach your acceptable standered of living is ok.

    Well, to play devils advocate, lets say that:
    1) the baby is born severely mentally retarded, and
    2) the baby lacks and will always lack the senses of sight and hearing, and
    3) the baby is born with a medical condition or three that are extremely excruciatingly painful, and
    4) the babies life could be prolonged indefinitely, but would cost a great deal of money at a time when hospitals are already gasping for funds, and
    5) the parent(s) don?t want to deal with it, and the chances of someone adopting it are non-existent, and
    6) the baby is severely physically handicapped, with four flipper limbs.

    Or something like that. What kind of future could said child expect? Does the intrinsic sacredness of human life outweigh the hellish and lonely existence this child would have? And, if it is morally justifiable to kill this child, then where does the line get drawn? When any five of those conditions are met? Any four? Any three?
  15. Cyprusg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2002
    star 4
    In this case however you'd need a pretty ******* strong case to convince me euthanizing babies who don't reach your acceptable standered of living is ok.

    Have you read the guidelines farraday? It's to be used for extreme cases only and would probably be for only 10 cases a year.

    I don't understand how anyone can have a problem with it when we do the same type of thing all the time. How is killing a baby that's basically a vegetable any different than pulling the plug on a man that just got in a car accident and is now a vegetable?

    The only part that worries me is the potential of having laxer guidelines in years to come. I think unfortunately that's a very real possibility as Dutch society and medical institutions get used to this idea.
  16. Darth_Smileyface Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2004
    star 2
    Raven said,

    "And, if it is morally justifiable to kill this child, then where does the line get drawn? When any five of those conditions are met? Any four? Any three?"

    Well said Raven. Do any of you really want the government (any government) setting a standard for what is an acceptable human being? I am not at all comfortable with this concept. Why are those of you in Holland responding so negatively and fervently to this article (as obviously biased and provocative as it is) and not to the fact that babies are being murdered?
  17. J-Rod Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 5
    What the story fails to mention is that this is about a set of protocols for ending a life that only has a future with endless suffering in it.

    Understand that in some of these cases the protocols were NOT followed. That is the news of the articles.

    This is what abortion will lead to IMO!

    The dissrespect for life is staggering.
  18. IceHawk-181 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 1, 2004
    star 4
    Lies? I personally see no lies at all in this piece.

    It is true that Holland is allowing the euthanasia of children in this hospital.
    It is true that this country has legalized many substances Americans would consider drugs.

    If you want to bran Foxnews as a bias and untrue source of information you may wish to try harder.

    Not to mention searching for an actual news article, as this is an op-ed piece.


  19. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    Well said Raven. Do any of you really want the government (any government) setting a standard for what is an acceptable human being? I am not at all comfortable with this concept. Why are those of you in Holland responding so negatively and fervently to this article (as obviously biased and provocative as it is) and not to the fact that babies are being murdered?

    But also consider the situation I outline for the baby above: what kind of life would she have? Would a life where the only thing you feel is pain, that you're unable to understand, and you have no hope of ever leaving be a life worth living? It?s a damned if you do, damned if you don?t moral question in my opinion. Is it more inhuman to end the life of someone in terrible suffering with no hope of improvement or to allow someone to survive indefinitely in terrible suffering with no hope of improvement?
  20. Darth Mulacki Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 1999
    star 5
    Jsut want to bring up another example uf Foxnews lying:
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,139614,00.html


    TThe city that they refer to, Malmo is less than 15 miles from where I live, Copenhagen, Denmark, and the stuff you see in that "news"-report is a bunch of propaganda *******. Yes there is a few problems with young muslims age 14-20 but its in a couple different getthos in the southeren part of the city, but nothing as bad as they are sating in that report. It's no worse than a some ghetto in the states, its actually better cause there are no guns.

    I have family and friends in Malmo and they are pissed by that report cause that cant recoqnize any of that which is supposed to happen. I go there once or twice a month and there has never happened anything like that while I've been there.

    The mosque that you see burning was torched by neo-nazis more than 6 months ago and all of them have been arressted.
  21. J-Rod Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 5
    I've read this on AP and Reuters(sp?) as well, do you condemn them as well?
  22. Vezner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2001
    star 5
    Not to mention searching for an actual news article, as this is an op-ed piece.

    That's what I was going to say. This is hardly a normal news article. It's an opinion piece.

    Second of all, there are other sources (KK has provided some) that are providing the same story. I don't see any evidence to show that FoxNews is "lying" in this article. IMO the issue is sickening and I agree with J-Rod about how this sort of thing can happen if you start making concessions in the issue of abortion. IMO.

    But also consider the situation I outline for the baby above: what kind of life would she have? Would a life where the only thing you feel is pain, that you're unable to understand, and you have no hope of ever leaving be a life worth living? It?s a damned if you do, damned if you don?t moral question in my opinion. Is it more inhuman to end the life of someone in terrible suffering with no hope of improvement or to allow someone to survive indefinitely in terrible suffering with no hope of improvement?

    So where do you draw the line? I see people that look miserable every day because of life circumstances. Should I start killing them because I want to show them mercy? Do you think anyone should be able to make the decision on who should live and who should die, just because they percieve that other person to be in pain or misery?
  23. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    Mmmh, let me dissect that article.

    Something terrible is happening in the land of wooden shoes, windmills, Rembrandt (search) and wonderful breakfasts.

    Ooh, sound omnious!

    A Dutch hospital is euthanizing ? killing ? newborn babies who don't measure up to an arbitrary standard set by the hospital. The hospital at first requested guidelines for so-called "mercy killings" of newborns. It then revealed it has been engaging in the practice without any guidelines at all. Three years after the Dutch parliament passed a law allowing doctors to actively kill patients they deemed terminally ill, in great pain and with no prospects for recovery, it has come to this. At least with the elderly sick, they had to be consulted about their wishes. Newborns receive no such privilege.

    Adding "killing" after Euthanizing, either they think their readers aren't smart enough to understand what Euthanizing means or they want to insinuate that this is cold blooded murder.

    Newborns don't get consulted, true, however, their parents and an independent panel of doctors are, do you think they will just kill any baby? Come on now. These killings are called "mercy" killings because that's what they are. They kill babies that usually have no chance at living anyway, babies that would probably die after a few hours/days/weeks anyway. Under developped pre-mature births with less than fully developped lungs ...


    I'm not surprised.

    Oh goody!

    Once a single category of life is declassified as having no intrinsic value and a right to life, it is a very short step to declassify other categories when they are considered inconvenient, or burdensome.

    Yea, I think we should let those babies suffer and *then* die! It's much more humane to let a baby live for 20 hours in terrible pain than to just ease it's suffering 19 hours earlier!

    Holland is a perfect example of what happens when there is no governing moral standard. The Dutch have decriminalized most drugs

    False, they've only decriminalized marijuana as far as I know.

    and people smoke dope openly in venues set aside for the practice.

    Yea well, it's not an illigal practice. You know, in some Muslim countries, alcohol is a forbidden substance. I can just see it now

    "America is a perfect example of what happens when there is no governing moral standard. The Americans have decriminalized most drugs (Alcohol!) and people drink alcohol openly in venues set aside for the practice"

    Oh my god! You mean bars?

    Prostitutes display their wares like mannequins in department store windows. And now we have at least one hospital murdering already born babies because someone has decreed them unworthy of life.

    Ah yes, prostitution is much better when it happens where decent citizens can't see it! That way you can better mistreat your whores, c'mon pimps!

    Don't tell me there isn't a huge prostitution network in the USA mr. self rightious.

    Nobody decreed any babies unworthy of life, they were found to be unable to live any sort of life, and instead of letting them humanly suffer for the rest of their short life (oh joy! and entire life of pain!) they're just putting them down immediatly. We do it to dogs all the time.

    If ever there was a slippery slope to be studied, this is it.

    Oh, very funny Mr.

    I'd like to point out though, if we're throwing dirt around, that America has no right to be talking slippery slope, Guantanamo Bay and Abu Graib spring to mind. Oh, and how about turning Afghanistan into a complete narco state?

    The Dutch are now grappling with their open border policy. They have admitted thousands of radical Islamists who have not assimilated and are threatening the stability of the nation.

    This is a problem everywhere, not just Holland, and people overreacted on the murder of Theo Van Gogh.

    A Dutch filmmaker (search) was murdered last month by a radical who didn't like a film he made criticizing Islam's treatment of women.

    Funny, now it's Holland's fault that there are
  24. J-Rod Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 5
    Wow...you just spent a huge post highlighting how this was an opinion piece!

    Too bad that was never in question...

    Maybe FoxNews should try to pass pieces like this off as hard news, like the NYT and CNN do...Maybe that is why you thought it was hard news, that's how you are used to seeing it presented... Hmmmmmm....
  25. Obi Anne FF admin Celebrations, Europe

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1998
    star 7
    I also think it's funny that there hasn't been anything on Swedish tv on how apparantly it is in Malmö. Sure there are some problem areas, but I've never heard of anything like what was described in the article. Also it would be nice if they could spell the names right, it's Rosengård not Rosengrad. (unless southern Sweden has been incorporated into Russia or something)
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