Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Luukeskywalker, May 11, 2003.
Doesn't it really mean, never give a warning shot?
As far as Greedo shooting first, here's something that I think has been grossly overlooked. Even if Greedo did shoot first, Han didn't have time to react and shoot back. The shots were fired practically at the same time so Han wasn't reacting to Greedo shooting first. Han was going to shoot first anyway so what's the point except to show how incompetent Greedo was in missing a large target two feet in front of him.
By making Greedo shoot first, Lucas changed the fact that Greedo was any real threat to Han to begin with making the whole scene a big joke.
I thought this was a TPM topic. BTW I love TPM.
If were going to discuss some SE flaws the biggest is Lukes scream in ESB. It negated his willing act to die. If you're willing to die you're not afraid, if you're not afraid then why would you scream?
I only hope when the DVD's come out they'll give us the option of leaving the addition in or out.
So who thought the green guy was a threat anyway? Come on, Greedo doesn't exactly send chills up my spine when I see him on the screen. The threat to Han was quite minimal at best. Which goes back to my original explanation. Shooting a dimwit like Greedo without just cause would have made him look like some kind of psycho. And not the fun-loving goofball we all know and love.
"Easy. Lucas didn't want Solo's character to be perceived as being a ruthless cold blooded killer type. Even if it was only Greedo he blasted."
But that's the way he was for twenty years. Now all of a sudden, he's changed. That's unbelievably rediculous.
"Shooting a dimwit like Greedo without just cause would have made him look like some kind of psycho. And not the fun-loving goofball we all know and love."
Did he really have just cause? It seems to me that Han could have just gotten up and walked out without doing anything. If Greedo couldn't hit him sitting still at the same table, then how could he hit him if he was actually moving?
Han could have just gotten up, walked out, gone to Jabba and stepped on that feared gangster's tail, had essentially the same conversation with Jabba (word for word) that he had with Greedo and then flown off to fight that whiney, horney, teenaged brat that's terrorizing the galaxy!
Han could have just gotten up, walked out,
- This will be done in the Archival Edition
From [link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=9717901&page=15]this thread:[/link]
GREEDO: If you give me your ship, your pet Wookiee, and the Indiana Jones trilogy on DVD, I might let you live.
HAN: Over my dead body, or next to it.
GREEDO: Ah, but if I must.
Greedo shoots, Han twists his head aside with a sickening crack, the shot misses!!
GREEDO: What the...!
Han cracks his head back in position, gets up, walks up to Greedo and points his finger at the green alien.
HAN: That was very, very naughty, you bad, bad boy!
Han walks away and tosses the bartender some coins.
HAN: Sorry that I raised my voice.
It all sounds good to me.
No, it's an opinion. I agree with your OPINION that the execution left something to be desired, but I disagree with your OPINION that it "ruined" the film or changed it in any way. And that's a fact!
It is your opinion that it is an opinion. It is my opinion that it is a fact.
Hawk, that's just absurd. It is a FACT that it is your OPINION that the addition was bad. That is non debatable. Look it up in a dictionary. You cannot claim something as fact unless it can be proven.
I was never bothered by this addition, as I always thought that the two fired at the same time anyway. In the original edition, I always thought that Greedo shoots at the same time Han shoots. It's probably all that smoke and the laser going everywhere. As long as Han doesn't scream when Greedo shoots, I'm fine.
IsnÂ´t this thread slightly going off-topic ?
Of course. Every thread turns into a Greedo shooting first argument these days. Get with it man!
I personally think it is wrong to change the content of a film. The finished project is a piece of history, which should not be altered by the changing of time and one's own mind.
I've never had a problem with digitally enhancing the color balances of the deteriorating film stock, or digitizing and remastering the sound, etc. I had a problem with Greedo shooting first, not because I know or care what Lucas wanted in 1976, but because it came out in 1977 as it was. Anyway, I guess he's gone this far now, he'll probably change more for an Ultimate Edition -- which, frankly, I don't care. It might be cool to have the voice-overs matching, the laser-sword colors uniform, whatever... just so long as the originals are back in print and respected.
It is your opinion that it is an opinion. It is my opinion that it is a fact.
With meaningless doublespeak like that, the Wachowski brothers might hire you to write the next Matrix film! "We say a lot of words without saying anything meaningful!" is their motto.
Well doesn't all this mean that Luke is now a cold-blooded ruthless killer - after all when he fired his proton torpedo into the Deathstar he didn't wait to see if they shot first. I think GL should go back and fix that - the DS should shoot at Yavin's moon, miss, and then Luke can fire his torpedo without looking bad.
"With meaningless doublespeak like that, the Wachowski brothers might hire you to write the next Matrix film! "We say a lot of words without saying anything meaningful!" is their motto."
"i wish that i could wish" your opinion was not so immensely biased.
Funny how you take that line completely out of context. Wishing that you can "wish" something away is a little different than wishing you could wish something was a certain way. Lucas's use of the line, while awkward, at least functions as a way of showing Anakin's confusion and despair.
Also, I don't want to speak for anyobdy if they don't want me to, but I think Durwood's point was that the Matrix films pretend that their dialogue is deep and profound, yet isn't, while Star Wars was never about dialogue to begin with, but rather special effects, colors, lighting, and other visual elements to tell the story.
Right! Another good point that shouldn't have to be made on a continuos basis, but is, nevertheless.
there is no such thing as a film that is not about dialogue. to say that is to disregard the script. and actually Durwood was criticizing a poster for the "opinion" comment, which was no worse than a line from the pen of Lucas.
Well, you know what they say about opinions:
"They're coarse and irritating . . ."
there is no such thing as a film that is not about dialogue.
I guess silent movies are just a figment of our collective imaginations then. As is Lucas' comment that he's basically modeling his visual storytelling style after the techniques used by the great silent directors of a bygone era.
Durwood was criticizing a poster for the "opinion" comment.
More precisely, I was criticizing him for presenting his opinion as fact. Context, chief. It's all about context.
Funny how you take that line completely out of context.
"Oh, he excels at it." Notably, he has persisted in using one of my statements, taken out of context, natch, as his signature quote despite my calling him on it. But that's good ol' Duck and Run for you. A zebra can't change his stripes and all that.
"I guess silent movies are just a figment of our collective imaginations then."
perhaps if youve seen one you would know that they have dialogue on title cards.
you were not arguing with an opinion earlier, you commented on the posters use of "doublespeak".
but keep trying, looks like one other person believes you. hey, its a start!
George made the OT like they were silent films as well, and yet the general concensus is that the acting and writing is passable, and in some cases very memorable. The general concensus on the prequels, however, is that the acting is, for the most part, dull and wooden, and that the writing is atrocious.