"From a Certain Point of View:" The Words of Obi-Wan

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Spike_Spiegel, Mar 1, 2003.

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  1. Trojan_Sock Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2003
    star 4
    "Obi-wan and Yoda felt that Qui-Gon was responsible for the destruction of the Jedi Order "

    Interesting assumption, since Obi-wan seems to bear some of that guilt in the OT. I seriously doubt that they will intentionally ignore Qui-gon when he is now in the best position to tell them the will of the Force.

    Obi-wan - "I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

    Obi-wan would only know of this "power" from Qui-gon (possibly through Yoda.) This would imply that Qui-gon was not ignored.

    Qui-gon would probably become the SW version of Dave Bowman, the astronaut in "2001" who was transformed by the monolith and became its "spokeperson", in order to tell the humans what was going on.
  2. ObidioJuan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2002
    star 3
    [/b]Yoda: Through the Force, things you will see, other places, old friends, long gone...


    For me this line says that Yoda was able to communicate and see old friends, like QGJ.

    Since we haven't seens EP3 it will be difficult to understand completely the POV of OB1. Imagine that the transformation of Anakin to Vader has some similarities to the Gollum-Smeagol from the LOTR movie. Imagine that OB1 witneses a "conflict" where Anakin and Vader are figthing for control.

    I'm not saying that I want to see it, neither that it will happen. But that still something might happen in EP3 that will make us understand why the POV and the lie.

    As to the "the Jedi Master who instructed me", I don't see the argument anymore. OF course I thought that it was going to be more obvious that Yoda was OB1's master but still makes sense. OB1 knows that it carries more importance to Luke to go to his former Master, than say "go to Yoda the only remaining Jedi".
  3. MikeSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2002
    star 4
    I just wanna add those words Obi Wan speaks From a certain point of view pretty much sums up all the SW movies and the fans. Everyone has a different point of view about each individual movie. As you can see from all the forums.
  4. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    "Interesting assumption, since Obi-wan seems to bear some of that guilt in the OT."

    Obi-wan only felt guilty about not training Anakin properly and not doing enough to keep him from drifting to the Dark Side because he believed he would be better at training Jedi than Yoda.
  5. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    OK, but your assumption about Yoda and Obi-wan's feelings towards Qui-gon is still unfounded. Seems to me they are more concerned with what Luke and Anakin are currently doing, rather than crying over spilled milk in Qui-gon's past.

    Yoda - "Never his mind on where he was...what he was doing!"
  6. Falls_the_Shadow Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 3
    With my first viewing of ANH in 1977, Kenobi's brief mention of "The Clone Wars" distracted me with interest. Even without the paternity revelation of ESB, I sensed that there was much more going on in that backstory. I distinctly remember asking my father what was the movie about the Clone Wars and when could we see that one. I was quite disappointed when my father told me that there was no such movie.

    Like the Nubian cruiser in the opening sequence, AOTC turns everything in SW on its head. As a spoiler-free viewer, I thought the clones would be clones of Jedi and would be fighting against the Jedi. I was pleasantly surprised that the would-be stormtroopers fight under the command of the Jedi.

    Kenobi was an appealing character, but basically an archetype and near stock character of the wise old guardian/wizard. Watching Kenobi as a younger, earnest, but failing master makes Kenobi a full-three dimentional character.

    Bottom line: Kenobi's lines raised expectations for the PT and they are met, in an manner that I did not expect.
  7. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    I particulary like this topic because Obi-Wan is my favorite character. I am horribly bored, so I'll revive it...


    I got a couple of questions to ask:

    Do you think that Ben has a sense of guilt hanging over him through the OT?

    What particulary in the PT does/can he feel guilty about in the OT?

    How did he change as a teacher, mentor and friend through the Saga?

  8. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Obi-Wan's my favourite overall Star Wars character as well. I'm very interested in his whole story and mentality and how it changes over time. I'm working on writing a fanfic from TPM-ROTJ dealing with Obi-Wan's thoughts and such... but that's beside the point :p

    To answer your questions... I do believe Obi-Wan has a sense of guilt in the OT. I believe it was always there, in his sad gazes and his speeches. But I think the PT rounds that out. I think he has some reason to feel guilty. I see some of his arrogance being a problem. And perhaps even resentment towards Anakin. That's something that interests me about their relationship. Obi-Wan was kind of thrown over for Anakin, and then it's on his shoulders when Anakin goes to the Dark Side. That's more guilt than anyone needs.

    Obi-Wan certainly isn't completely responsible for what happened. But, by the OT, all the Jedi have been killed and the galaxy is in shambles, and it's parlty his fault. These are things that I see rounded out in the PT that were always hinted at in the OT.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  9. honour Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2003
    star 3
    Obi-Wan and Yoda did not think Luke was ready to deal with the "burden" that his father had turned into a cold-blooded killer who had helped to slaughter millions of innocent people, hence Yoda's line to Luke in ROTJ, "not ready for the burden were you" or something to that effect.

    As for Obi-Wan's line to Luke about "You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend on our point of view" is perfectly legitimate. There's evidence of that in the "real" world.

    Even Qui-Gon uses a similar line to Obi-Wan in TPM when Obi-Wan says to him: "The boy is dangerous. They call see it. Why can't you?", Qui-Gon responds "From your point of view."

    On anothe point, it's my point of view that Obi-Wan was not suggesting that Luke had to "kill" his father. He said to Luke that he had to face Vader - that it was Luke's destiny.
  10. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    Luke-"I can't kill my own father."

    Obi-wan-"Then the Emperor has already won."

    It seems like Obi-wan WAS suggesting to Luke that he must kill his own father.

    Besides, even if Luke's training is complete, he'll still go out of his mind if he finds out that Darth Vader is his father because he's been decieved by Obi-wan and Yoda for so long about Anakin being killed by Vader he is already thinking about "avenging his "father".

    If Luke is told the truth either when his training is complete or when he defeats Vader and the Emperor, he'll go psycho just like his old man did when he killed the Tuskens. Luke will hate Obi-wan and Yoda for manipulating him into doing something he would never dreamed of doing and go darkside thus making him the next Sith lord.

    Telling Luke the truth later will hurt him much more than telling him now.
  11. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    I understand why Obi-Wan didn't tell him. I mean, if you want to motivate the kid to go off and become a Jedi are you going to say- "Your father was a Jedi, but he turned to the Dark Side and now he's an evil Sith Lord whom you might have to kill in order to save the universe" OR are you going to say- "Your father was a Jedi, a good friend, and this Darth Vader guy who you might have to kill in order to save the universe, killed him."

    To insure the safety of the Galaxy, Obi-Wan had to tell his 'certain point of view'.

    What I want to know, though, is when he was planning on telling Luke if Vader hadn't told him?

    -sj loves kevin spacey
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