Characters From Before to Beyond: Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan Discussion Thread! - January Challenge up!

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by Kestella, Aug 7, 2006.

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  1. GeneralKenobi7 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2009
    star 4
    [face_laugh] I don't think there were enough males (clones not counting) in the whole Clone Wars series so far to make that scene, but it would be hilarious. After all the 'jump in and bash on everything with your lightsaber' can't be used always - that would be kind of boring. But of course then the whole Clone Wars thing is really not much more than that, at least in my opinion...

    A girlfriend for Obi-Wan? and non-Jedi? I don't think that would work. He really is too much of a Jedi to get involved with someone. Probably it will turn out to be Anakin teasing him or something.

    And concerning Ashoka... Well, sometimes I think the series is not really thought through. The only really reasonable explanation would be to kill her, but nowadays few authors dare to kill a heroine.

    And I always wanted to know what they'll do with the canon that excisted before the series (the comics and everything). I mean it doesn't both fit in the timeline, but they can't just go and say the older things are non-canon now, can they?
  2. TheMacUnleashed Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2009
    star 4
    I'm attempting to remain optimistic about Obi-Wan's new "girlfriend". Then again, I was optimistic about Ahsoka, and I ended up disliking her. A lot.

    Oh, and I think I remember hearing that her name was supposed to be (highlighting just to be safe.) Satine. Duchess Satine.

    I'd rather they just brought in Siri. I mean, I could definitely understand him having more than one loves in his life, but the whole "love with a political figure" has far too many parallels to Anakin and Padmé's story.
  3. ardavenport Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2004
    star 4
    Good point. =D=

    Ooooh, I like that. Talk about an undercover mission.

    MISSION: Get Anakin To GROW UP.

    But since Ahsoka is Togruta she actually could be 23 years old. I don't know how long they live. Guessing from the size of the head-thingys on Ahsoka and on Shaak'ti that could be a long time.

    And very true.........Ahsoka could be assigned to another master. Either she or Anakin. Or both. They're up to that challenge. [face_mischief] Could screw up massively and be separated. This would be the kindest way of dealing with the character, so we don't know if she gets killed in Order 66 or not. It would probably have to be something that would make Anakin clam up about it.

    But the thing that gives Ahsoka potential for me is that I like the idea of her surviving and coming to Luke and Leia later on. That would be interesting. She could fill in a lot of the gaps that Obi-Wan didn't have time to.

    Well, if Ahsoka does have a wardrobe malfunction, Obi-Wan MUST be there for it. Just so he can poke Anakin about it. Or perhaps there would be a situation where her tube top would fail, and it doesn't. That could be interesting, too. [face_thinking]

    In the preview of the Clone Wars cartoon, the voice they used for this 'old girlfriend' was clearly that of a mature woman. She's supposed to be a queen or a leader or something like that. The implication is that they mutually agreed that they were attracted to each other, but did not do anything about it. That would make sense for Obi-Wan.

    They may just ignore some things. They have before. Anything with Boba Fett's backstory was completely negated when AOTC came out. And there were EU books from the early 1990's with Luke looking for his mother. That was discarded as well.

  4. GeneralKenobi7 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2009
    star 4
    MISSION: Get Anakin To GROW UP.
    That would be about Mission Impossible then...
  5. ardavenport Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2004
    star 4
    Hmmmmm, I've been thinking.....there's more than one way to shave a Jedi.

    And I've thought of a few more things for the list:

    - enslaved
    - critically ill
    - ill with something annoying and humorous
    - killed tragically (is there any other way to kill Obi-Wan?)
    - memory loss
    - going to the dark side
    - insane
    - allergic reaction (this could go either humorous or critical)
    - loses the Force
    - blindness
    - deafness
    - paralysis
    - baldness
    - shooting (blaster or projectile weapon)
    - beaten up
    - heavy things dropped on him (either accident or on purpose)
    - stabbing
    - explosions
    - drugged, hallucinogen
    - drugged, with intent to disable or cause unconsciousness
    - poison, with intent to kill fast
    - poison, with intent to kill slow
    - imprisonment or behind held captive
    - mind control
    - starvation
    - extreme climates, hot and cold
    - drowning
    - sensory deprivation
    - lightsaber injuries
    - electrocution

  6. earlybird-obi-wan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2006
    star 6
    another to the list and this is a humourous one

    covered in food.

    Siri intended to do this in Cake disaster but another ended up covered in chocolate cake and cream
  7. LuvEwan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 4
    Ummmm I think the time has come for a writing challenge on this lovely topic. How about we try to incorporate each of the items in the list into one fic!!!! Sounds easy, don't it!!!! [face_skull]
  8. ardavenport Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2004
    star 4
    Strangely enough, my cousin gave me his DVDs of 'Dead Like Me'. With a SW crossover with that, you could actually hit everything on the list, though even I wouldn't do all that to Obi-Wan.

    Dipping Obi-Wan in food is possible, though would that be angst-producing? I guess I need to amend the list that the things on it should have a high probability of angst. Which reminds me that there is another thing to add....


    - enslaved
    - critically ill
    - ill with something annoying and humorous
    - killed tragically (is there any other way to kill Obi-Wan?)
    - memory loss
    - going to the dark side
    - insane
    - allergic reaction (this could go either humorous or critical)
    - loses the Force
    - blindness
    - deafness
    - paralysis
    - baldness
    - shooting (blaster or projectile weapon)
    - beaten up
    - heavy things dropped on him (either accident or on purpose)
    - stabbing
    - explosions
    - drugged, hallucinogen
    - drugged, with intent to disable or cause unconsciousness
    - poison, with intent to kill fast
    - poison, with intent to kill slow
    - imprisonment or behind held captive
    - mind control
    - starvation
    - extreme climates, hot and cold
    - drowning, water
    - drowning, other
    - sensory deprivation
    - lightsaber injuries
    - electrocution
    - food poisoning


  9. nada_smith Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2006
    star 1
    Ardavenport, you forgot abducted by aliens. ;) (though I'm not quite sure what that would mean in the SW universe...maybe martians still count. ]-} )

    Also, the worst...facing intractable bureaucracy!

    And, Valairy, I love the idea of Ahsoka undercover.

    That easily explains what happens to her. Anakin finds out about her "betrayal" of pretending to be a padawan when she was actually a knight and does his impression of an angry padawan in a Tusken raider village.

    Now the question is when does it happen.

    If Anakin finds out before ROTS, then he has to find a way to hide the body and explain away the sudden disappearance of his "padawan."

    Or if it happens after his official fall to the darkside, then I think she had to be on a solo assignment during ROTS and have just returned temple side to be there for the massacre. When Vader enters the temple he sees his padawan who sassily tells him where to get off with the Darth routine and lets slip the details of her undercover assignment when she laments her utter failure to make him grow up. At that point no hiding bodies or explaining. Because he was just "following orders" to terminate all Jedi. Though extra angst if Obi-Wan and Yoda see her amongst the fallen at the temple.

    Ack...shutting up now.
  10. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Plot bunny!

    Don't shut up...some of us thrive on throw-away thoughts like this.

    How does one explain no Ahsoka mention in ROTS, though? Hmmm.
  11. GeneralKenobi7 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2009
    star 4
    How does one explain no Ahsoka mention in ROTS, though? Hmmm.

    Maybe she did something relly bad and the Council is mad at her:p
  12. LuvEwan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 4
    This thread has been quiet for too long. :eek:

    I've been wondering how can you tell, when you're writing fanfic, if you're getting the characterization of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan correct (if you're going for a canon interpretation). What are the key aspects of these characters that need to be present in their characterization for a fic to feel like canon, like you've captured the essence of the characters?
  13. ardavenport Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2004
    star 4
    Characterization is always a minefield. We only have Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in one movie and the less material you have to start with, the broader the character interpretations can be. One can add in the JA books, but not everyone would take those as canon for their story. I think they're good interpretations of the characters, but I don't always use them as the basis for my fics.

    For characterization, I go for consistency in that story. If you're using a parody with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan using lots of exclamations and sarcasm (like the Obi the Kid stories) then just keep it consistent throughout the story. If Qui-Gon is written as a cruel taskmaster who spanks Obi-Wan every night before sending him to bed then it would look odd if he suddenly became fawning over his padawan without a really good reason. Though maybe you might want to put a big 'AU' label on that.

    When talking about Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, it's important to talk about what timeframe you're using, too.

    - Very young Obi-Wan with Qui-Gon
    - Young learner Obi-Wan with Qui-Gon
    - teenage Obi-Wan with Qui-Gon
    - young adult Obi-Wan with Qui-Gon
    - AU Jedi Knight Obi-Wan and Qui-gon
    - exile Obi-Wan on Tatooine with Qui-Gon ghostie

    I've tried a few of that last one, but I don't know why it hasn't been exploited more. Post-war, Post-traumatic shock Obi-Wan alone in his hut with almost nothing to do, scrabbling out a miserable life in the desert with only Qui-Gon's voice in his ear for comfort -- one could have all kinds of angsty fun with that.


  14. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5

    Eh, I figure a lot depends on both the story and viewpoint: one person may see Qui-Gon as wise and compassionate, another as easily distracted by the immediate. One person may see Obi-Wan as sarcastic and dismissive of others, unable to connect to others on a human level because he's cold and unfeeling, while another may see him as reserved and gentle, deeply committed to the Force as his first priority.

    In short, though, Qui-Gon does not look so far ahead that he misses the present (ahem, cough: Council scene) and Obi-Wan looks more ahead and sometimes overlooks that which is right in front of him. In short, both are perfectly human and far from perfect.
  15. Seremela Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2008
    star 3
    I think Anne makes a very good point about consistency. When you know what you want your story to say, and have an idea about how the characters should be to get your story across, stick to it. And, here again I agree very much with Anne, if that means a canon character gets bent out of shape, MENTION IT IN THE WARNINGS!

    Yes, it can mean there are people who will immediately decide not to read that story, but isn't that far better than have them start and get all dissapointed because it's the canon character they like that has been altered to someone they don't recognize?

    I try to stick to the characters in the movie even when the story idea asks for different pasts and such. The truly great writers can make Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan recognizable no matter what they're stuck in and I'm always infinitely jealous of them that they can do that!

    For me the movie is the main source; I've liked reading the few JA books I know, but there are assumptions taken in them (the whole idiotic 'thirteen year' rule; Xanatos who for me makes Qui-Gon's reaction to Anakin impossible, even if he can be a real fun source for story ideas) that make me consider them more like 'sanctified fanfic' than anything else.

    And for 'main source' I mean I look at the little details and what they tell me.


    Okay, the next part is long, but I'm trying to show what I mean with that 'looking at details':

    The way Qui-Gon reacts to Jar Jar Binks when they've just met, the way he talks to the Queen on the ship, how he talks to the Jedi Council, how he uses mind tricks when things don't go the way he wants them to: it all shows me a man who's impatient, and especially impatient to have things go the way he feels they should.
    How he can't pass a sighing and lost looking Jar Jar even if they don't need him any longer and takes the time to liberate him, how he keeps Jar Jar under his wings even if the blundering *ahem* not really contributes anything, how warm he is with Anakin and Shmi, the way he smiles and greets Yoda so warmly with 'my master', his smile and patience for Obi-Wan when Obi-Wan tries to have him be and behave differently followed by that arm on Obi-Wan's shoulder, the way he tries to reassure Anakin after that disastrous council meeting: that all shows me a warm and compassionate man.
    The way he fights, with long, sure strokes and movements, the way he kneels and meditates when he and Maul are cut off from each other, the things he says about focusing on the presence, the way he stands at peace just before a war when they are just back on Naboo and how he reacts so warmly and with such praise ("You are far wiser than me") on Obi-Wan's apology about Anakin - they show me a man with a deep, inner serenity, at peace with who and what he is.
    Then there's also the way he reacts immediately with slapping Maul after Obi-Wan was kicked off the walkway and the pursuit of Maul afterwards, that says something else again.

    For Obi-Wan there's less to see in TPM I think, but two other movies follow and the ten year older man has to have been present in the younger man of the first movie, right? What I see in TPM is he's very sure and confident in his fighting. He's fast and likes fancy jumps, which, of course, is also youth, but to me again shows how very confident he is in his body and in what he can do.
    His more than once contradicting Qui-Gon shows me two things, that there is enough trust between them for Obi-Wan to speak up and that he's chafing a bit at the padawan role, ready to move on even if he doesn't like what happens at the council meeting when Qui-Gon stands up for Anakin and
  16. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    I think that was a lot of fancy words that say a lot - very well said. I think you pretty much nailed Qui-Gon...I had to skim the rest due to time constraints. Work is calling....
  17. ardavenport Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2004
    star 4
    All of this reminds me of a big motivator for me for why I write fanfic at all. I like a certain character(s) and I want more. If there isn't any more coming from the source, I make my own. Doesn't look like we're getting more Qui-Gon with Obi-Wan stories, so I write them. And I put them into different situations and see how they react/respond/learn/etc. based on what I've seen.

    So, extrapolating on a character so much that they could be a different person doesn't interest me since what I want is more of what I saw in the movie. Sometimes it's a challenge to put them in those speculative situations where they act atypically, but only for little short stories. Otherwise, my fanfic preferences are extremely character driven. If I want more Qui-Gon, I derive him from the movies as much as possible as my starting point and write with that in mind.

  18. GeneralKenobi7 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2009
    star 4
    I fond Qui-Gon really diffiuclt to write because he isn't in the movies a lot and those books who feature him are mostly more children's books, with no real details of characterization.
    Thanks a lot for those helpful thoughts!
  19. brodiew Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2005
    star 5
    This may seem simplistic, but I see Qui-Gon as more of a laid bak hippy, very in touch with the Force, but not as formal as others such as the Jedi Council.
  20. ardavenport Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2004
    star 4
    I don't really think of Qui-Gon as laid back. He can be very strict when he wants to be.

    I think he can be unpredictable -- following his feelings and the Force. It might look impetuous, but he is very experienced and I think he relies on that, too.
  21. Seremela Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2008
    star 3
    Would it be something to do a 'characterisation exercise'?

    I was thinking we could maybe take a specific situation, very defined and clear, so it's the same for all the writers. And then we all write a short fic about how Qui-Gon would react in that situation. Then we post it all at the same time (so no one is influenced by others) and compare and discuss. We can look at things like 'why did you have Qui-Gon do this?' Or: 'I don't think he would be able to do that.' Also 'If you put in this or that, you might get closer to what you want to show about him' and other writing tips.

    And after that we do the same for Obi-Wan (or vice versa).

    Might be fun, get more fic out and we have something concrete around which to discuss their characterization. Maybe try and make a list of what we find true to character in the posted stories? Not as a rule ever after, but more to try and get a grip on the characters.(I kinda think of it as Tolkien, who wrote a whole history for Middle Earth before he wrote Lord of the Rings, but didn't use most of it in the books; you have it in the back of your head to add flavor if you need it).

    Important is that we can discuss both what we think was spot-on, but also what we think wasn't. And with the reasons why we think so. Because only that gives us handholds to see where certain ideas about the characters come from.

    The hard part might be to find a situation that works for something like this, ánd for all the writers.

    And of course with Obi-Wan there's the age question. I think it might be easiest to go with his age just prior to TPM, because that's closest to the movies and not everyone knows the JA books.


  22. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Sounds like fun to me, as long as we keep the emphasis on WHY we think the characterization works and does not. Set it up... and I'll do my best to participate.
  23. CelseteAntola TF.N Books Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 3
    *pops head over stack of textbooks*

    I'm game! Bring on the challenge! :D

    *Ducks back behind textbooks to finish English assignment due today...*

    ~Celeste

  24. GeneralKenobi7 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2009
    star 4
    Sounds interesting...I'm in!:D
  25. Seremela Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2008
    star 3
    Waiting to see if more people are interested. I hope there are enough who would write a story, but I also hope there are more people who would join the discussion afterwards.

    This idea doesn't mean everyone interested has to write something, as long as we have enough stories we can revolve the discussion around. But I do think the more opinions, the better we can try and nail what makes Qui-Gon Qui-Gon, and Obi-Wan Obi-Wan for us :p


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