Lit From Endor to Jakku - The State of the Galaxy Discussion Thread (Battlefront 2 Spoilers Tagged)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralNick22, Sep 6, 2015.

  1. Stymi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2002
    star 4
    I'm ok with that. Keep the focus on the characters and the action. The heavy and clumsy exposition of the PT accounted for a large portion of why it didn't work well.

    Sent from my Moto X-Wing
  2. Stymi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2002
    star 4
    That's right. I forgot. So, he exists. But he could be a totally different person in the NEU. Functionally, his role will have to be dramatically different.

    I don't see the need to retcon him out. His mention was a nod to Legends. The NEU can simply ignore the chatacter. Problem solved. No retcon required. They can also go in a completely different direction with the character, as long as it is consistent with the mention in Tarkin. So many options that don't require a retcon.

    Sent from my Moto X-Wing
  3. La Calavera Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2015
    star 4
    Right.

    Though, I would like to also add that, you can’t create symmetry if you have too many negatives in one side of the equation.

    If TFA emulated TPM, instead of ANH, then yes, ending in a negative note would feel, well, “symmetric” I guess. But it doesn’t. It emulated a movie that starts in an already grim world with a glimpse of hope, but it doubles down on its depressive factors. Han dies. Luke is missing and looking miserable when found. The second Jedi Order is dead. The New Republic is dead. And this is before the second movie of the trilogy comes, where things will (and you know they will) get darker and more depressing. So no, I’m not looking forward to this trilogy ending with everyone still in misery. There is no balance in that, and it’s not really that entertaining.

    The PT ended in a depressive note, but it didn’t start in a depressive note. The evolution of the story in the PT contrasted the evolution of the story in the OT (one started in a relatively happy and prosperous galaxy with some problems and ended terribly; the other started in a depressing galaxy with some hope and ended wonderfully). There is no symmetry to the PT in the way the ST started, because TFA is only hitting on the notes played by ANH/ESB.

    Mostly, worthy dark-endings that make people wish for more have to be earned. You cannot just have a series of constant depression. People quickly get tired of that. If TFA started in a prosperous post-Empire galaxy and ended with the rise of the FO, then yes, ending in a negative note would’ve probably felt exciting with people earning to learn more about the FO. But with the way it started – with the FO already as the main villains in their full evil power – I don’t think it would be all that exciting if the third movie still ended with the FO as the main villains in their full evil power. And that being the premise for the SST sounds just boring. Would people really be excited for another set of three movies of the same villains fighting the same heroes?
  4. MrDarth0 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2015
    star 2
    It doesn't necessarily need to be the same villains, the FO could evolve and be run by different people in the SST, especially if the SST takes places years or even decades after the ST (yeah, I know this probably won't happen). Not to mention, it's been more than 40 years now and people are still not bored with the Empire fighting the Rebellion, best case in point - Rogue One. If people get bored so quickly with the FO, then there's something wrong with the FO. Star Wars villains and heroes should be timeless if done right.


    But your post actually made me realise what I was missing in TFA. I wanted TFA to be more like the PT, so it would be more symmetrical. I wanted to see the prosperous New Republic and Luke's Jedi Order, and the slow rise of darkness again. Pretty much the stuff that happened between ROTJ and TFA we don't know yet is more interesting to me than the actual TFA.
  5. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    You'll forgive me but on my end, I can't imagine many people were thinking, "I want the next Star Wars trilogy to be more like the Prequels."

    I also like the idea it was 30 years of peace.

    Then again, I'm of the mind the First Order is TOO similar to the Empire and should be their own thing.
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  6. MrDarth0 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2015
    star 2

    Which is a pity. The PT had its problems and I don't want to discuss them here :), but the overall themes of how a democracy can become a dictatorship and how a good man can become an evil one were good.

    The ST could had similar themes, but without the mistakes. It could have been about how some people were missing dictatorship and were dissatisfied with democracy, and how a son of two heroes of the Rebellion could turn to darkness. But I guess we are (very) slowly getting this story in books and comics, so the EU set between ROTJ and TFA will sort of be the PT to the ST :)
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  7. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2016
    star 4
    I really want to get to know Armand in the NuCanon. I don't feel like we got enough of him in the previous canon. Why not give us a book that goes deep into the functioning of the Ruling Council, High Command, the Joint Chiefs and more. Don't give us another Luke, Liea or Han novel. How many of those do we have?! Give us something we actually need!
  8. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    I want less Armand and more Ysanne.

    BEST CHARACTER EVER!
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  9. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Some day we will have a civilization rid of both fascists and pirates :p
  10. comradepitrovsky Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2017
    star 3
    Is a civilization without piracy worth protecting? I consider peg-legs, parrots, and eyepatches a prereq for advancing up the Kardashev scale.
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  11. JediBatman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2015
    star 3
    @MrDarth0 Overall I guess if I had to sum it up, the main issue I have with the idea is "options". In a hypothetical 4th trilogy, they can do anything they want. They could have remnants of the First Order come back to be the villains again. They could have an entirely new villain. Or (as unlikely as it seems) they might not decide to make one at all. Or at the very least wait until the little kids who grew up with the sequel trilogy to become old enough to buy tickets.


    But if the trilogy ends with the First Order winning, any hypothetical future story HAS to address that.
  12. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    Given how much they've marketed the Resistance, I expect that name to be used in the movies. However, I fully expect all the supplemental materials (novelization, visual guides, cross sections, etc) to show how the Resistance becomes a de-facto New Republic military force, given that the government is gone but scattered military forces remain.

    Note the entry for the Resistance bomber on TOS's interesting choice of wording- "Now reinforced with new combat craft, the Resistance fleet dispatches hardy bombers into battle."

    My gut says this shows that many of the warships and new fighters we'll see in Episode VIII and IX are New Republic units that are rallying to Leia's banners to oppose the First Order and ultimately restore the Republic. Ditto they could also be from New Republic member worlds, which all still exist, save Hosnian Prime of course.

    --Adm. Nick
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  13. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2016
    star 4
    NR fleets flocking toward the Resistance is basically the modern equivalent of the Warlord era. Just like an Imperial fleet abandoning service to join Gen. Weir's treasonous "counter rebellion". If you were a true New Republican you would remain with your government.
    Last edited by SpecForce Trooper, Sep 18, 2017
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  14. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    Well, in the new canon, the New Republic's entire governmental and command structure is wiped out on Hosnian Prime. The Chancellor is dead, most (if not all) of the senators are dead, and presumably the majority of the Defense Force High Command. The Resistance is composed of former New Republic leaders fighting to protect (and then post-TFA, restore) the New Republic.

    In the aftermath the Hosnian Cataclysm, who better to folk to than Leia Organa and Admiral Ackbar? ;)

    --Adm. Nick
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  15. vncredleader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2016
    star 4
    Wedge and Lando..........if they are even alive. :_|
    The agony of not knowing makes it more painful
  16. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    Until proven otherwise, Wedge Antilles in my head canon is Starfighter Commander for Leia's Resistance. Lando is busy scrounging supplies and smooth talking his way into situations to gain an advantage for the Resistance. [face_not_talking]

    --Adm. Nick
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  17. vncredleader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2016
    star 4
    I hope to the Force that you are right
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  18. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    I wonder if that's going to be the conflict between Leia and the Admiral, the fact the Admiral is legally the head of the remaining New Republic military but Leia is the far better leader.
  19. vncredleader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2016
    star 4
    I doubt there will be a conflict. Leia is a good political leader sure but in terms of running a fleet Ackbar is the best. They need each others strengths
  20. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    This'd be the same Force that's utterly at ease with two Death Stars and a Starkiller Base running rampant on the galaxy?

    Yeah? Ok then, good luck with that.

    I've thought for a while there'd be some mileage to a character with a 'screw the Force' attitude, a burnt out cynic due to the Empire's superweapons.
    vncredleader likes this.
  21. Darth Caliban Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2015
    star 4
    Would have been great to see Lando having a residence in Canto Bight. This place would have been the perfect location for him to live after the OT.
  22. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    Conflict between Leia & Ackbar or Leia & VADM Holdo? The likelihood of the former is nil (Ackbar & Leia remain close, he left retirement for her), the likelihood of the latter is almost certain.

    --Adm. Nick
  23. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    Well, Admiral Ackbar is subordinate to Leia who is the leader of the Resistance but I meant Holdo. Ackbar is retired from the mainstream military and more or less a feel good cameo.
  24. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    A feel good cameo? How dare you, sir! [face_frustrated]

    Ackbar, victor of Endor, Kuat, and Jakku is more than just a simple cameo. He is a military leader who fought in the Clone Wars and Galactic Civil War. A military leader who was respected by his adversaries in the Empire, to the point they considered him a Grand Admiral equivalent. :cool:

    Lack of respect for Ackbar will result in a permanent ban. #modlyabuseofpowers [face_devil][face_cowboy]

    --Adm. Nick
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  25. comradepitrovsky Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2017
    star 3
    I don't think Mister Abrams agreed with you, I'm afraid.