Lit From Endor to Exegol - The State of the Galaxy Discussion Thread (Tagged Victory's Price Spoilers)

That's one thing that bugs me... From the way the war crimes trials seem to be organized, they're targeting the imperial military, not the imperial politicians. Doesn't that seem a bit... backward compared to historical examples?

It should be the one's that gave the order to commit an atrocity... be they civil authorities or military officers. Considering the way the Empire was organized... wouldn't it be the Moffs be the ones that would most likely face prosecution? Of course Moffs blur the line between civilian and military authority, so maybe they'd still be targeted.

 

Well both get targeted in these sort of situations.

The person who did the deed and the person who ordered it If Alderaan was ever to do war crimes trials regarding the Death Star like Israel did they would go after a still-surviving Grand Moff Tarkin but they would also go after Tenn Graneet. The thing about "just following orders" is that it is famously a defense that FAILED.

I should note going after the Empire's military as criminals is nothing new to STAR WARS either as the Legends tabletop RPG produced by West End Games also treated Imperials as war criminals after Endor. In addition to Bevel Lemisk getting executed for crimes against sapience, they also allowed General Cracken to label Imperial warlords as guilty of "Treason against the New Republic, Sedition, Murder of New Republic personnel" and similar crimes.

And that makes perfect sense because they don't recognize the Empire as a legitimate government.

 

That said, I do remember it being pointed out that in legends, relatively few Imperials got put on trial for war crimes, and that Bevel was one of only a tiny number executed.

(Though in terms of Lost Stars...put on trial is not the same thing as convicted. Even in the post-World War trials a fair number of German and Japanese officials and officers were acquitted and many others got sentences less than death or life in prison. I could see Ree being such a person. )

 

Well, one Grand Admiral was but that was considered a miscarriage of justice. I'm not quite sure why as he was a member of Palpatine's inner circle and protecting a machine devoted to the destruction of planets. The rest of the Grand Moffs, Imperial Advisors, Ruling Council, and Grand Admirals were all killed except Grand Admiral Grant. So it seems more likely there's just not that many high ranking Imperials they could put on trial. The 1000 Moffs and Fleet Admirals were really the highest ranking officials left and they were relatively small potatoes.

Also, Isard was according to Stackpole imprisoned for life on the Lusunkya.

That may not be the case in canon.

 

That's just a theory based on how ambiguous Iella's line was about the death of Isard at Bilbringi and was referenced as a rumour in Essential Guide to Warfare.

 

I thought he said that was his intention but it wasn't something he had authority over.

Oh well.

 

I wonder how much of that is because so few of the big shots of any kind lived to make it to trial. The Emperor, Darth Vader, Grand Moff Tarkin, Sate Pestage, Paltr Carvin, Grand Admiral Thrawn, warlords Zsinj, Krennel, Harrsk, Teradoc (both of them) etc etc etc... all either killed by the war or by the infighting it caused in the Empire. Isard's the first big shot I can think of off the top of my head that actually (probably) survived to be accountable for anything in any way.

 

Teshik was the one put on trial and executed, BTW.

The Alliance captured Teshik alive, put him on trial for "inhuman atrocities committed against the citizens of the galaxy," convicted him, and sentenced him to death. The irony of the sentencing did not escape Teshik, and before his execution, he responded with mechanical laughter.[2] In his final statement, he relayed the story of his experiences at Andalia, warning the Rebels that their fight with the Empire was far from over.[1] Teshik became one of the few Imperials executed for war crimes by the New Republic, the Alliance's successor government.[2]

 

Few being the keyword in there, not many were executed save for those directly implicated. The New Republic was more open to peace with Remnants in Legends than it is in the New Canon. We'll see if this'll be due to a Reign of Terror or a magical disappearance of Imperial ideals by the time New Canon expands more on it though, I guess.

 

Well, the Empire in the new canon is less loved and it's hold on the Galaxy far more tenuous than the old Legends stories portrayed it. The trials post-Concordance would be akin to the Nuremburg trials post-WWII, with former Imperial moffs, officers, and other high ranking officials accused of war crimes being put on trial. I frankly wouldn't be surprised if one of the conditions of the New Republic accepting Amedda's surrender was that he would have to testify in trials where he knew atrocities were carried out in the Empire's name.

--Adm. Nick

 

Is it really? Was the Legends Empire that liked or tightly held? The reason the Empire lasted in Legend was mostly Daala and Shadowhand I thought....and you know how much it pains me to give Daala credit for anything.

 

My buddy GrandAdmiralJello is better suited to answer this in depth, but yes. In the new canon, even Core Worlds aren't exactly super loyal to the Empire, at least as monolithically as they were initially portrayed in the old EU. The Empire's grasp in the new canon is truly based on military might and fear, whereas in the old EU many worlds in the Core and Colonies were completely insulated from what the Empire was actually doing in the Rim.

Again, part of the reason is that in the early days of the EU, it was generally assumed that the Empire had been in power for 40-50 years. There was a large gap were generations supposedly grew up under it's power. In the new canon, only one generation is born under the Empire, the one that opposes it.

--Adm. Nick

 

IMO a lot of that depends on how the New Canon handles the Old Republic's history, because the Legends pre-Ruusan Old Republic as I've said fits to a T as a predecessor to the Galactic Empire.

 

Mind you, according to the Legends sources, the Core Worlds were generally loyal to the Empire but not especially deep. After all, they basically handed themselves over the Rebellion and went on with their daily lives. Even then, this was a matter of pragmatism and not universally true since Corellia, Chandrilla, and Alderaan were the basis of the Rebellion (i.e all three Core Worlds). Ironically, it seems to be more varied in canon.

The old "The Outer Rims are the soul of the Rebellion" seems more true now as there's a lot more explicit Separatist ties and Outer RIm groups.

I do generally agree, though, the galaxy seems less passive in canon. To use a sports metaphor, in the old universe, the galaxy was a football passed between the Empire and Rebellion. Here, it's much more an active player against the Empire.

Edit:

I should note the Empire's existence timeline wise is a bit more flexible than some people give it. While the Empire only existed 20 years, Palpatine was still dictator of the galaxy for 33 years. That's a bit closer to what people think. The difference is people assumed there was a transition period from the early Empire to ANH.

In fact, the transition period was under Chancellor Palpatine.

 

The GA, if not the NR, in its early years was basically Empire-lite with the likes of Caedus and Daala though. We know this changes by the time of Legacy as a lot of Imperial-leaning individuals joined up with the resurgent Second Empire instead, so the GA looks like it has regained its original Rebel/Republican roots by the time it falls, ironically. A lot of the lower GA bureaucracy didn't seem to have much qualms with serving Krayt though.

 

So, the Rebel Files gave us a great list of worlds that were Alliance regional HQ's, member worlds/allies/sanctuary worlds, Level 5 Starfighter bases, and "shadow planets/deep space caches". Details below, blacked out since the book just came out and some folks may want to wait until they get it.

Rebel Operations Sector/Regional HQ's
Talay
Golrath
Vergesso
Polis Massa
Tomark
Brigia
Turkana
Mantooine/Fest
Generis
Edan II
Dantooine

Allied Worlds/Safe Worlds
Alderaan
Chandrila
Ralltiir
Sanctuary
Kashyyyk
New Plympto
Sullust
Ord Pardron
Isis
Mon Cala

Starfighter Bases (Level 5 or Higher)
Tierfon
Homon
Farstey

Shadow Planets/Deep Space caches
D'Qar
Reegian System

Also- we learn that Telaris is a "cometary cloud", which sounds like a great place to hide a top secret shipyard. We also learn that Ackbar was immediately promoted to fleet commander after Raddus. Ackbar's decision to withdraw fleet units (including Home One, which is basically confirmed as the second combat ready Mon Cala cruiser after the Profundity) to evacuate Yavin allowed the Empire to gain a foothold on the main hyperlane into Mon Cala space.

SUCH a great book guys. We also get little insights into the New Republic, thanks to comments from Leia and Holdo!

--Adm. Nick

 

As an old-timey Marvel and WEG fan, those "deep cut" references to

Spoiler

Golrath and Isis

warm my heart.

 

So

Spoiler

Isis is called Isis again? In Star Wars: Uprising, they had renamed it Gutretee, probably to avoid unfortunate implications.

 

FYI, the book's IU setting is pre-TFA. The notes in the book by the various Resistance leaders makes that clear. There are some interesting comments about how the New Republic controls most of the Galaxy, about how the free press is back in full swing, and how Mon Mothma's commitment to disarmament (while noble) has set the stage for the New Republic and Resistance to be unprepared for the First Order.

It really is a fantastic read, guys. Like, up there with the Atlas, EGTW, and some of the Visual Guides.

--Adm. Nick

 

Well, yes, of course. I just thought it made for a fun trivia fact.

 

My headcanon is Moraband and Korriban are translating Sith hieroglyphics.

As such they're trying to say the same word.

But both are perfectly correct spellings.

 

If we went by the (now Legends) Kittât and the rules of Sith language established by Ben Grossblatt, neither "Korriban" nor "Moraband" could be the actual Sithese form, since that language (again, in Legends) doesn't have a native "b" sound. The closest they have is the "m". The original form could be something like "Ko(r)riman" or "Moramand", or something in between.

 

Eh, I think too much about this.

I used to have the idea the Sith's Darth names were meant to sound foreign and scary to the Native Sith so they used their home tongue.

Which was Basic.

Hence Darth Brawl, Growl, Kruel and so on

 

I, for one, think it's a real shame they actually hired someone to create a functional Sith language... only to use it in one book, and then completely forget about it. (Apart from a very botched phrase in a TCW episode.)