Lit From Endor to Exegol - The State of the Galaxy Discussion Thread (Tagged Victory's Price Spoilers)

The Hutts have a lot of power collectively, but much like the Scotts, they're more interested in collectively stabbing each other.

 

Marlo....had the creature on his head like a toupee.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Marlo

Actually I think the Hutts are good how they are. I can see some of the slaves rebelling or escaping to freedom. but I like that they have the huge chunk of space that they control....and their fingers in the criminal pies of the rest of the Galaxy. They should neither lose or gain any significant territory. They have the strength to keep what they have....but know that the only way to gain more would be to try to conquer it in open warfare...and then the rest of the galaxy would basically unite against them. Their different clans control what they control and back each other up to keep the "Hutt Space" under Hutt control...but also are trying to muscle in on each other's territories like we see with criminal organizations in the real world.

 

The Hutt thing in the EU always seemed really weird to me. It's like, Hutt Space ends up being by far the most stable place in the GFFA, outlasting Sith Empires and Republics and Galactic Wars with basically no changes or unrest at all--despite the fact that it's literally a criminal syndicate full of infighting, most of whose inhabitants are slaves.

Even the idea of "slave species" is kind of wonky--it's hard to see how that arrangement could possibly work out or be stable in the long term, especially given that these species seem to make up all of the Hutt's actual military power. The greatest fear of all slave societies throughout history has been slave uprisings--and those were all societies where slaves were carefully kept away from the military. The Spartans (unlike most slave socieites) maintained a strict divide between them and their Helot population, entirely monopolized military force in their society, maintained a virtually totalitarian military government, and constantly subjected the Helots to various forms of public humiliation--and they could still barely leave their borders for fear of uprising. You can hand-wave it in space opera enough to make it work, I guess, but it certainly shouldn't be portrayed as the most stable and effective living arrangement in the Galaxy.

And the Mafia doesn't tend to be the most internally stable organization either, or lead to societies with wonderful long-term prospects and lots of prosperity. Honestly, I'm glad to see the new canon take a less positive and static approach to the Hutts. Have them be gangsters, yes, even an entire species of incredibly successful and powerful Space Gangsters--but not this constant, unchanging presence in the universe. They should have the problems as well as the advantages of their criminality.

 

Even relatively recent slave societies like the American South debated the idea of arming slaves for service at the end of the Civil War but ultimately could not bring themselves to do it for fear of what it meant for the long term for their society. They would enlist them to build fortifications, cook, work in munitions' factories, other service labor, but not arming them. Fear of uprisings created a certain psychology in the South distinct from the North.
The EU's depiction of slavery overall seems to treat it as just a thing that is there. No real explanation for the consequences or what it means to that society, etc.

 

With constant millions coming from each Outer Rim world, I assume Hutt Space would continue; Supply and demand. Also, it's not a political entity. Hutt Space was more a geographic area, home to the Hutt Clans. Individual clans probably collapsed and new ones would form, but the territory remained in control of hutt slave-lords because the Outer Rim was in constant demand for slaves over the millennia. With an economic stranglehold on half the galaxy, no one would dare oppose them. The Vong were the only real threat; They never cared about the economy. It would be the highest level of stupidity for the NR to consider action against the Hutts.

 

So the stuff about Jabba dealing (and "dealing") with small, local rivals can be explained as gangs playing at politics? "I'm going to challenge your authority just enough to get some profit and notoriety, but not enough for you to consider me a real threat and have me squashed" kind of stuff? I like it!

 

Keep in mind that the Hutts probably put the explosive chips in their slaves and their families. You rebel not only do you get it but so does your whole family.

 

I think Jabba also appreciated a certain level of pushback from his employees in the squeaky wheel sense of the word. "My kind of scum" and all that. It's probably why he was able to keep Boba Fett on his payroll longer than most. He didn't mind his attitude as long as he got the job done. Which separates the Hutt Godfather from people like Vader and Xizor. While it's hard to think of Jabba as FORGIVING, he did give Han a fairly large amount of latitude before bringing down the hammer.

That is, assuming Jabba ANH scene is canon.

Jabba liked strong-willed nasty mercenaries who were good at their job, which is certainly different from weakness. If you expect criminals to behave, you'll always be putting out fires but Jabba only needed to crush the genuine threats like those trying to kidnap his offspring ala Ziro.

Re: Slave Uprisings

In the case of the Hutts I wouldn't be surprised to find out if their collapse is due to the fact they spread themselves out too thin under the Empire. They were an isolated but powerful nation underneath the corrupt Republic but were definitely benefiting from the Empire's blind eye to crime (which is unusual for authoritarian regimes but not unheard of either) so when the Republic rose, that caused massive pushback.

One thing we can infer, though is the various criminal organizations we've seen like the kind Han Solo deals with in TFA are breakaway organizations from the Hutts. Kanjiclub, according to the Visual Dictionary, is a former group of Hutt slave soldiers. Given they were armed just like the Nikto, Weequay, Gammoreans, and other of Jabba's mercenaries--I'm inclined to think they saw the Hutts weakness post-Jabba and the Empire then took over the businesses for themselves.

It's not so much a slave uprising as a fall of gang lords due to economic changes. You could easily say the fall of the Italian mob to the myriad new criminal organizations out there.

 

Regarding the "slave species" thing and how they could remain in servitude for millennia: I never interpreted it as every single member of each species being slaves to the Hutts (after all we see Nikto and Weequay who aren't slaves). I considered it more of a cultural thing: even if you're not literally a slave, chances are you're an indentured servant, or the only work you can get is as a Hutt aligned gangster, or the Hutts bought all the local businesses and have your planets leaders under their thumbs. And those species accepted this status quo because they thought nothing could change it. The difference is in the New Canon they got sick of the Hutts and, like the Rebels, overthrew their "invincible" masters.

That being said, I agree that it was a bit silly how stable the Legends Hutts seemed in comparison to all the galactic governments that rose and fell. With so many beings focused only on self interest, you'd think their society would turn into Bioshock's Rapture, but somehow it kept going.

"They come to Rapture Nar Shadda thinking they're gonna be captains of industry gangsters, but they all forget that somebody's gotta scrub the toilets."

 

I took the Hutts as having a client-race relationship to other species under their control with slavery as something that was done to them but they were always subordinates.

 

that and a combination of a 'life debt' type arrangement, as we saw in Fate of the Jedi

 

One thing I'd like to see is whether or not they're continuing with the idea of Snoke being someone who knew the Solo family. The Centrists imply that the First Order is something new which Leia will always oppose but I'd be curious if Snoke was a fixture among them or the Solo family in general beforehand. I really like the idea of him being a "Sauron as giver of gifts" or "Sauron a guest-prisoner of Gondor" figure.

 

I'll take a page from @Charlemagne19's book and say that it would be cool where if the First Order wants to build up some popularity before going full ham, it could tear down a Hutt remnant. It would also clearly show itself as that its 'learning from the mistakes of the Empire' and tackling crime. Plus actually having all those freed slaves being WILLING allies of the First Order would be interesting because they would've come to them as liberators, not conquerors.

 

Eh, why wouldn't it be? Much maligned as it is, that scene appears in the "current" official version of the movie...

 

Great, another debate over whether the original cut is canon or the special edition is. Not here please.

 

There isn't really a debate in terms of canon; the latest Blu-ray/digital release, which includes the Special Edition scenes, is canon. The original cut hasn't been released under the new canon.

 

Thing is, there's absolutely nothing to debate here...

 

Charlemagne19 was obviously stirring the hornet's nest.

 

Right. So let's move away from that.
Askin whether the most recent updated editions are canon is like asking if Episode VII is. Well... yes, obviously.

 

True.

I'm away from my comics atm since I'm moving towns so they're in storage till I move permanently and I forgot to grab my Shattered Empire comics. When I can I wanna talk about the first three months post-Endor.

 

From my point of view episode VII IS legends!

 

This isn't your thread then.

 

So disappointed you didn't go with "Then you are lost!"

 

I much prefer "Lies, Deceptions!" but it didn't seem right.

But I feel sorry for SW fans who refuse to accept that everything pre-2014 is now Legends. I've accepted it (I just use names and ships until they are changed).

 

The question is not about if they would or would not tolerate criminal elements with an SSD; the question is if they can find them, space is smegging big after all, there are many places you can easily hide something as small as a SSD.

Like taking away their right to practice slavery, moving natives from profitable landareas or only pay minimal taxes

Are they still slave species to the hutt in the NC? I mean we do see some of them in roles completely unrelated to the hutts in TCW

Tell that to Kanjiklub!