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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit From Endor to Exegol - The State of the Galaxy Discussion Thread (Tagged Victory's Price Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralNick22 , Sep 6, 2015.

  1. Cracian_Thumper

    Cracian_Thumper Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2015
    I'm waiting for the one-two punch of the CRS Legendary Journeys and the CRS Warrior Princess, personally.

    More on-topic, I'm amazed there hasn't been an ISD Vengeance in the new canon yet. Weren't there like five different ImpStars called that in Legends?
     
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  2. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    They've stayed away (for the most part) from the more familiar ISD names in the new canon. Which I kinda like. I feel the same way about Rebel/New Republic names too. Using some older names is a nice nod, like Admiral Kassius Konstantine flying his flag from the ISD Relentless. I'd rather if old names are reused that they are used on different ships. For example, and old EU fan like me here's the name Liberator and instantly thinks of a captured Star Destroyer used by the New Republic. However, in the new canon, the Liberator was a CR90 corvette used by the Phoenix rebel cell.

    Don't get me wrong, there are a few I wish I could cherry pick and bring back into canon. To this day, I think one of my favorite MC80 names of all time was Remember Alderaan. The nomenclature matches will with other canon Rebel/NR ships (Remembrance, Restoration, Freedom's Dawn, etc). I also love oddball names like the Mon Remonda, I'd kill to have the MC80B canon again.

    Hmm, this has got me thinking about canon Rebel/NR ship names. Off the top of my head they are as follows:
    • Home One
    • Liberty
    • Nautilan
    • Restoration
    • Amalthea
    • Freedom's Dawn
    • Echo of Hope
    • Concord
    • Redemption
    • Remembrance
    • Sunspire
    • Phoenix Home
    • Liberator
    • Ranolfo
    • Thunderstrike
    • Apailana's Promise
    • Bright Hope
    • Thon's Orchard
    • Duty Free
    I'm sure I'm forgetting more than a few, but these are the ones that I know are canon in recent sources.

    --Adm. Nick
     
  3. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Nope. There were three, and one was recycled from the wreck of an earlier one.
    There were two Super Star Destroyers called Vengeance - one from the "Balance of Power" campaign of Xwing vs. TIE FIghter, and Jerec's flagship in Jedi Knight.
     
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  4. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    I'd be curious to see more of the First Order's naming pattern for warships. Just like the New Republic has a general theme of rebirth and hope in their naming patterns, the FO should have a distinct naming pattern as well. Like I said above, I'm all for the occasional call backs to older ships (EU or canon). I'm sure there is a new Liberty serving the NRDF, just as I'm sure that there is a Finalizer-class Star Destroyer named Avenger.

    --Adm. Nick
     
  5. mattman8907

    mattman8907 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2012
    were the mc80s liberty and homeone type star cruiser ever made canon again or are they still legend classes?
     
  6. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    The term MC80 is still canon, but the idea of Liberty & Home One types within the the class hasn't been recanonized. FFG is still using those terms, even though they aren't producing canon material. Still, it shows at these names are pretty common in fandom now, so I'd think it a safe bet to say they'll stay canon.

    --Adm. Nick
     
  7. Tzizvvt78

    Tzizvvt78 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Leland Chee said no changes to ship names, unless there's a story reason for it. So I assume the two types are still called that.
     
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  8. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Yeah, that's my understanding as well. The way I look at it, if an author writes a draft and says that Home One is a Whaladon-class MC70 cruiser that the folks like Pablo or Leland would presumably say "Hey, the actual class name is Home One-type MC80 cruiser."

    Maybe I'm naïve to think that way, but I can't see those either of those keepers of lore changing something that is so firmly ensconced in fans minds. [face_dunno]

    --Adm. Nick
     
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  9. mattman8907

    mattman8907 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2012
    so the Star Wars Propagana book came out today and apparently they have some stuff regarding this time period between Endor and Jakku
     
  10. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Yes, there are bits of new lore in the Propoganda book. The main things that are confirmed:

    • Following the battle of Endor, Mon Mothma called a "Galactic Congress" on Chandrila that invited worlds to come and best decide how to structure the New Republic.
    • The Galactic Concordance allowed for a "staggered" annexation of former Imperial worlds into the New Republic.
    • This move was is part designed to show former Separatist worlds that the New Republic wouldn't be the same as the old.
    • Confirmation that the heavy reparations were levied on Imperial governors, not worlds.
    • The New Republic's membership was smaller than the Empire's or Old Republic's, but most of the independent systems (ie, Ryloth) remained on friendly terms with the New Republic.

    Now, the big spoilers, which are kinda confusing TBH, are below. I've copied my buddy GrandAdmiralJello, as he & I have discussed this at length prior to the release.

    It says that the Centrists do in fact secede... but then there is another section that states the First Order was part of the New Republic and then seceded. It is not clear if both these events are connected or are separate, but it raises more questions then answers them. It still seems to also imply that the FO was beyond the Rim, focusing their efforts and time in the Western Reaches and Unknown Regions.

    So yeah, lots of cool stuff, but a lot that I have a hunch Pablo can't/won't be able to clarify until Episode VIII.

    --Adm. Nick
     
  11. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Yes, that bit was in the preview pages that went out -- and it doesn't look like the text changed at all. I have to confess I'm not entirely sure what's going on with the FO.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  12. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Well, it's exactly what we thought after we read the preview, right? Not anything new.


    I'm guessing it will work out this way:
    There's been a "shadow" First Order, secretly growing in the Unknown Regions, since the time of the Battle of Jakku. Think Hand of Thrawn.

    They eventually make contact with Imperial sympathizers in the New Republic Senate. They are almost all Centrists (but not all Centrists are NR sympathizers). Their main contact is probably Lady Carise, with Snoke in the Unknown Regions. He directs her to start funneling funds, etc. to paramilitary organizations that will aid the First Order as well as to network with other potentially-sympathetic Senators. Which we know she does and has been doing, seen in Bloodline. And then, when the time is right, Snoke gives the signal and they secede.

    They then join up with the forces in the Unknown Regions, and Snoke formally takes charge. But the remaining New Republic, and those non-elitists in the First Order, still have no idea the extent of the First Order into the Unknown Regions. Hence why Poe is so surprised when he's brought on-board the Star Destroyer, and them being caught completely unaware by Starkiller Base.
     
  13. Karl0413

    Karl0413 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 11, 2015

    I think you nailed it.
     
  14. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Pablo answered my tweets as follows:

    "Broadly, yes. Centrists would became the political hub of the First Order. Individual worlds, though, I can't get into."

    And then when I asked about Core Worlds being part of the FO:

    "Some are indeed in the Core. Quite a few former Imperial worlds."

    Well, I guess the FO is bigger than we thought!

    --Adm. Nick
     
  15. Darthmaul208

    Darthmaul208 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2013
    It would have made for a more interesting film/plot if the FO had struck from hidden bases in the Core instead of using Starkiller Base.

    But I'm sure something like this will be in Episode 8.
     
  16. Karl0413

    Karl0413 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 11, 2015

    We have to watch Jello. He might have a heart attack if he finds out the First Order's banner flies proudly over.....[face_whistling]
     
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  17. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    It's important to now the following:
    1. Pablo doesn't say all Centrist worlds secede.
    2. Pablo doesn't mention individual worlds by name.
    3. Only "some" are in the Core. Many Centrist worlds we see in Bloodline are Rim based, including Riosa and Orinda.
    The fact that the FO felt the need to build a base in secret in the Unknown Regions shows that their holdings aren't as extensive in the Known Galaxy when compared to the New Republic.

    --Adm. Nick
     
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  18. Darthmaul208

    Darthmaul208 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2013
    Or perhaps as stable.

    That would also explain it.
     
  19. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    I can't


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  20. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    The First Order should be half the galaxy.

    The rich Half.

    :)

    Thus they can finally restore the Empire to its former glory after crushing the corruption that was Hosnian Prime.
     
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  21. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    So is it sorta like a HYDRA winter Soldier thing going on here?
     
  22. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Well, the First Order in the known galaxy is a relatively new phenomenon, they would have seceded sometime after Bloodline. It makes sense for the high-grade military stuff to come from their hidden bases in the Unknown Regions. For the secrecy, and for the time to build them up.
     
  23. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Also because they don't want the NR to be alerted and go blow them all up. ;)
     
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  24. The PiedPiper of Alderaan

    The PiedPiper of Alderaan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2015
    This fits with the MSW report where it was said the FO was once part of the New Republic. I think Ghost nailed it indeed: the FO was growing in secret in the unknown regions while having sympathizers among the Centrists (but not all Centrists). When the FO revealed itself with Snoke at its head those sympathizers seceded from the Centrists to become the official FO senators within the senate of the New Republic. They're like the right-wing in a democratic earth senate, if you willl. It happened in the last 5 years before TFA. Then tension rose and the FO eventually left the NR (when? 2 or 3 years before TFA? less?). Start of some "cold war". But the NR doesn't take the First Order seriously because they think they're just a bunch of fanatics far away at the deeper end of the galaxy (they don't know they have a strong fleet, big military etc...it was done in secret, away from the Senate's eye). Leia is the only one to see that the FO means trouble for the whole galaxy, so her mission is to convince the NR senate that the FO is a serious threat.

    In the same MSW report it was said that Snoke was the known leader of the FO and that he had many diplomatic, "friendly" contacts with the NR senate, and even managed to obtain so kind of mutual non-agression treaty. Of course he was hiding his true agenda. There was a state of cold war in the frontier regions, and incidents, but the FO is officialy "small" in size and far from the the core so the NR didn't want to take the risk of yet another galactic war.

    So if the report is true -and it seems to fit with the the propaganda book- in the aftermath of the destuction of Hosnian Prime in TFA, the NR still exists but what's left of the senate is divided between those who want to make a stand against Snoke and those who want to join him (by fear? by conviction?). The proportions are not known.
     
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  25. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    The NR not taking them seriously doesn't make much sense if the FO has a presence in the Core. You know, right by Hosnian.
     
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