Lit From Endor to Jakku - The State of the Galaxy Discussion Thread (On The Front Lines Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralNick22, Sep 6, 2015.

  1. King of Alsakan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2007
    star 4
    With regards to the question of the Galaxy's Centrist/Populist or general political leanings, it is made more difficult off course without knowing all of information regarding the political structure of the Galaxy, or the individual planetary governments, over the millennia in great detail, in the Legends or the new universe. Over that time span I am sure it must of changed a lot of the years. Though I would think there was always a fight between the Republic being more of a loose alliance, and it being an actual central government. The Alsakan Conflict being a good Legends example of that, as well as there seeming to be local Empires and stronger local militaries sprinkled throughout the Legends timeline.

    Also seems to me that there is a decent amount of influence from non-democratic forms of government within the democratic Republic. Legends universe had plenty of monarchies, nobles houses, and other forms of government that were non-democratic, especially going back from 0 BBY. The new universe timeline might also have a similar pattern with regards to the Elder Houses and that they once held more influence in the past. Also always thought that it never seemed odd to anyone in universe that Palpatine declared himself to be an Emperor, so it must be a title or form of government that is more in the mainstream than say in the current real world political setting.
  2. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    What? No, the Fifth Republic isn't a successor state. It was still party to all the obligations and privileges of the Fourth Republic. Check out the Montevideo Convention for a recent recap of customary international law in treaty form. What you refer to as the legal personality IS the state. What you call the government is government as defined in the peculiar sense of a parliamentary system, not government under intentional law.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
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  3. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    For all the talk of Populists and Centrists, let's not forget that there is a sizable part of the Senate that is unaligned with either party. These swing systems are the key to winning debates in the pre-TFA years.

    I also feel that there is more nuance to each parties views than simply "I like big government" or "I like small government". One of my main disappointments in Bloodline was how black & white each faction is presented. That doesn't even match up in the real world. Take national defense in the US. There are many Democrats who take a hawkish approach, ditto ones for high levels of defense spending. Just like their are Republicans who aren't for shutting down our borders or taking a super harsh stance on immigration.

    The Coruscanti senator who was pro-NR military was the closest we saw to nuance outside of Leia or Casterfo. He was never portrayed as a FO lacky, but rather a senator that supported a strong Defense Force and respect for those in uniform. I'd like to imagine there are more examples of this. Take Mon Cala, for instance. A Populist world, but one that is the NRDF's key shipbuilder and a main source of naval recruits. I can see their senators siding with the Centrists on votes around defense spending.

    As always, I LOVE nuance. Black & white stuff is just too boring, IMO.

    --Adm. Nick
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  4. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 7
    There was a lot of nuance when talking about the actual individual Senators, or the leftwings and rightwings of each party.

    I plan on doing another read-through of Bloodline before TLJ comes out, to list all the notes on the political details in the book.
    Last edited by Ghost, Mar 10, 2017
  5. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 5
    Bloodline also was influenced by the fact that a lot of our perception of the parties comes from Leia's POV, and she's rather disgusted and cynical about them both, in contrast to the idealistic Casterfo.
  6. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    Too bad there are no canon sourcebook/RPG guides anymore. A modern day version of Cracken's Threat Dossier would be wicked cool, especially if it included a breakdown of how the New Republic is organized, governed, etc.

    Hell, I'd by "Draven's Threat Dossier" any day. ;)

    --Adm. Nick
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  7. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Dec 16, 2012
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    Just want to say that I don't understand why some of you put such importance on that many senators are appointed by their homeworlds/-sectors instead of being chosen in an election.
  8. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

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    Oct 29, 2012
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    No need, since Cracken is still canon! Why deal with underlings?
  9. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    A democratically elected Senate is a new concept, at least when compared to the old EU. The New Republic truly believed that not only should worlds freely choose to join their government, but that those world's citizens needed a voice in who represented them. If nothing else, it's refreshing to see that politics in the GFFA isn't always portrayed as some seedy business. The New Republic placed high value on democratic & egalitarian ideals, which is commendable, even if a bit cumbersome at times when governing a galaxy spanning republic.

    Switching gears, as I re-read Empire's End there is a definite vibe of the rising chance of an underworld war between all the main criminal organizations now that the Empire is gone. There is even a quasi-pirate government called the Sovereign Latitudes out there, as well as the normal players like the Crymorra, the Hutts, the Black Sun, etc. I'm hoping that if we get stories set in the post-Jakku/pre-TFA period that we see how the New Republic handled this conflicts. One of my pet favorite ideas is a sort of quasi-war with the Hutts. The New Republic banned slavery, but the Hutts still practice it. You could have a whole, interesting story around a world breaking free of Hutt rule and petitioning the New Republic for assistance. TFA VG implies that the Hutts power has waned since ROTJ and that worlds have broken free.

    A New Republic/Hutt conflict, even a localized one, is fodder for one hell of a story.

    --Adm. Nick
  10. Taalcon Force Ghost

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    Jul 12, 1998
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    Pablo's Visual Guides seem to be the closest to these. Rogue One UVG in particular.
  11. Jid123Sheeve Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2016
    star 4

    Well there is always the long lost Star Wars underworld series. Just move it to a post ROTJ world
  12. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    Yeah, some bunch went and killed Jabba and boom.
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  13. robotical712 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2017
    star 1
    Hi AdmiralNick22, I'm the creator of Star Wars Reference, a Star Wars Canon reference and analysis wiki and subreddit, on reddit and I'd like to ask your permission to add this information (with attribution) to its own article on the wiki:

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  14. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    No problem, go ahead and use it. Always a pleasure to help a fellow fan who loves to catalogue GFFA stuff. :)

    --Adm. Nick
  15. robotical712 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2017
    star 1
    Thanks! If you're ever interested, I'd be happy to make you a contributor to the wiki (you'd need a reddit account). That way you'd have a place keep and organize your cataloging.

    Edit: It's up. Thanks again!
    Last edited by robotical712, Mar 15, 2017
  16. Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    Okay, I don't know if anyone else has spotted this yet, so I'm gonna throw it out there and see if it sticks...

    Jim Henson's Phasma Babies?

    Edit: sorry, wrong thread! See what happens when I don't pay 'tention?
    Last edited by Pfluegermeister, Mar 15, 2017
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  17. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    FYI, I added Ganthel to the list as well. It is a Core World, the location of a New Republic military academy.

    --Adm. Nick
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  18. godisawesome Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2010
    star 3
    What conflicts and issues do you guys think we might see in the GFFA between the OT and ST once they inevitably start telling more stories there? I was going to make a new thread to ask this question, but this thread overlaps enough in concept that I thought it would be redundant. I mean, this is Star *Wars*, and the setting tends to thrive off conflict and combat, and we've got a radically new status quo compared to the eternal GCW from Legends.

    I mean, I really don't see any conflicts of a scale large enough to threaten to topple the New Republic during this time period, since the NR is complacent and Unattentive by TFA, and that wouldn't happen if they weren't far removed from Galactic-scale war. However, I can't help but feel they intentionally established the NR's borders as having limits and occupying the same Galaxy as at least three other nation states so they'd have areas where conflict could take place; basically, a "Third World" category between the "First World" of the NR as the premier superpower and the "Second World" of the rearming First Order in the Unknown Regions. We've got the two Separatist successor states and the Latitudes confirmed, and the former two sound like they might have some issues with each other and the New Republic, while the last sounds like an anarchic mess just waiting for adventures to happen inside it.

    It seems to me that the Latitudes sound like they could work as a kind of Star Wars Wild Wild West area, with enough breakdown in order and stability that guys kind of like Talon Karrde can operate as near undisputed heroes in comparison to their rivals and peers. We know that some criminal gangs are disputing the Hutt's control during this time, so that the Guavvian Death Gang and Kanjiklub can be prominent menaces by TFA. This feels like the ripe area to have some Luke stories where he's wandering the Galaxy looking for Jedi knowledge and fighting for the little guy, or where some NR pilots can get some experience before the Resistance is formed.

    And the Confederacy of Corporate Systems and New Separatist Alliance, or whatever their exact names are, sound like they provide enough potential political intrigue to give Leia a well-earned headache trying to make new treaties, calm tensions, and de-escalate Forst Order driven division. And the Corporate oNe could very well be a petty villain against the other, trying to avoid NR retaliation while still being a despotic government.
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  19. Darth Basin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2015
    star 5
    Maybe we'll get NR stories of them moping up Imperial hold outs. There's gotta be a few out there. It's a big GFFA.
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  20. JediBatman Jedi Knight

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    May 3, 2015
    star 3
    The Propaganda book confirms that there were definitely some Imperial hold outs, though it implies they were short lived, referring to peaceful and not-so-peaceful annexations of former Imp territory in the "months" following Jakku.

    I agree, although a big galaxy wide scale conflict is out for the period between ROTJ and TFA, it is ripe for smaller conflicts and a variety of factions.

    In many ways I think the era wil be similar to the Pre TPM or Pre AOTC era. Those stories often had Jedi (Qui-gon and Obi-wan or Obi-wan and Anakin) fighting pirates or other small scale threats that were planetary in scope rather than galactic. Also there were occasional interludes of Sidious cackling that everything was going to plan.

    I'd imagine we'll have similar stories, maybe with Luke and Ben doing Jedi stuff and Snoke doing the cackling.
  21. Vthuil Force Ghost

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    Jan 3, 2013
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    Depending on the final fate of Thrawn, I kind of suspect that "months" might wind up being quietly retconned into "years".
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  22. Darth Basin Jedi Master

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    Aug 15, 2015
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  23. Stymi Jedi Grand Master

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    Jan 10, 2002
    star 4
    Very US states rights versus federal power.

    sent from my Moto X-Wing
  24. Charlemagne19 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    Well, the thing is that a lot of Legends fans are chewing the fat over is they have a mental disconnect with the First Order vs. The Empire. The First Order is the Imperial Remnant. It's a bunch of Ex-Imperials and Dark SIders doing Imperial things and plotting evil.

    However, fans want the EMPIRE to keep fighting on.

    Despite the only difference being the First Order is more overtly evil.

    So I expect them to be behind most bad guy groups which pop up in the meantime but Thrawn would be better as a First Order leader along Rae Sloane until we find out when The "Dark Empire"/Snoke takes over the FO.
    Last edited by Charlemagne19, Mar 19, 2017
  25. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Yes, the FO is the Imperial Remnant -- an illegitimate warlordist state that has nothing to do with the Galactic Empire or the Imperial government.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
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