Lit From Endor to Exegol - The State of the Galaxy Discussion Thread (Tagged Victory's Price Spoilers)

I think the only reason the war continues in Legends for even that long is because of all the brushfires that pop up that require the New Republic's attention post-Dark Empire: Daala, the Empire Reborn movement, the Black Fleet Crisis and the Corellian Insurrection. If the NR didn't have those distractions, the Legends Empire would have been wiped out, as Pellaeon and other Imperials implied in the Hand of Thrawn duology.

 

I've always kind of liked the theme that "when good guys team up they overcome their differences and defeat a foe together, when bad guys team up they scheme and fight amongst themselves", but I do agree the Rebels should be doing most of the work.

 

I think it largely came from Legends having to retcon together seemingly conflicting post-ROTJ stories. TTT doesn't mention any infighting.

 

Agreed. I'll add that the self-destruction of the Empire doesn't imply that the New Republic didn't achieve meaningful accomplishments towards speeding it's downfall. Early operations post-Endor show the New Republic stepping in to protect world's threatened by Operation Cinder, plus as we see in Shattered Empire the nascent Republic engaging in liberation operations of world's almost immediately. Then there are campaigns like the multi-week capture of Kuat, which were free of interference and proved that the New Republic's growing navy could go toe to toe with the Imperial Navy.

--Adm. Nick

 

Really ? The Force was crying when Hosnian Prime was destroyed (and I'll bet Luke was too). Palpatine's death was supposed to mean an end to the titanic carnage of the Dark Side. But thirty-four years after the first Death Star was destroyed, another weapon was built and another world perished. My headcanon is that Luke feels the destruction of Hosnian Prime in the Force and awakens in a cold sweat knowing that he failed and the Galaxy is suffering again. And in the Force, Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin are all filled with sorrow as the shadow of the Dark Side rises again.

 

I always wonder if all three visited Luke following the destruction of Luke's Jedi Order. cause you know he was filled with Sorrow then too and he was probably pissed at Ben (and probably still is).

 

I also figured a scene of a hooded Luke on Acht-To might have been interesting and Leia aboard the Resistance transport (if they had early scenes shot) reacting. Then again, you can imagine easily and picture in your head what their reaction was. That's how I see it, also how untrained Force sensitives across the galaxy felt (depending on their natural/subconscious contact with the Force).

 

Oh I'm sure that both of Luke's teachers and his father came to him multiple times to urge him to return from exile and stop his corrupt nephew and the rising First Order. The Galaxy needed Luke Skywalker more than ever. Leia got that and that's why she risked everything to find that map. And now that they have, the Jedi can return again.

But I think Obi-Wan would be disappointed in Luke. When Obi-Wan's student fell into to darkness,Obi-Wan went to stop him. And he succeeded, to a degree. We don't know how Ben's fall went, but Luke clearly didn't stop him or even injure him.

Either way, the Galaxy needed Luke Skywalker and it still needs him, even with Starkiller Base gone. The Jedi need to return because they are the only ones who can stop the Dark Side Warrior Ren and his shadowy master, Snoke.

 

Well...it was military means that destroyed Starkiller Base and saved the Ileenium system. Military action and two Jedi Knights were enough to topple the Empire. The Resistance aided by a Jedi Master should be able to take down Snoke's pale imitation of Palpatine's Empire.

 

I'm fairly sure that the First Order is every bit if not more dangerous than Palpatine's Empire.

Of course, the fact is that, No Joke, the only reason Hosnian Prime was destroyed was because Snoke and Kylo Ren were terrified Luke was coming to kill them.

If they'd kept their search for him a better secret then billions might still be alive.

 

Obi-Wan didn't stop Anakin. He chopped off some limbs, a classic Kenobi move. He didn't kill him. He didn't do anything the soften Anakin's fall, he left him crippled and fuelled by unbridled fury. Anakin then spent over two decades helping Palpatine reek havoc and building a body count that Rambo would look at and go "Woah, that's a bit much."

Luke didn't maim or murder his nephew. He was probably practicing the unconditional love that helped redeem Vader and defeat Palpatine. Maybe it didn't work, but Obi-Wan showed the hack and slash approach didn't work either.

 

True. In fact, I think that Snoke was keeping Starkiller Base in reserve as a sure-fire way to kill Luke. He was waiting to get the location of Ach-To and the he would order Hux to fire the Starkiller and wipe out that entire system. Not even Luke Skywalker could survive that.

 

Very possibly so.

I am reminded of a lot of people complaining about the Clone Wars episode where Count Dooku was captured by Hondo's pirates (back before Hondo was a complete joke). A lot of fans thought Dooku should have slaughtered all of Hondo's pirates despite being surrounded by them. I, on the other hand, believed it was better that Dooku could be captured by numbers.

As much as I love seeing Vader destroying entire armies, I tend to think The Force Unleashed isn't the direction we want to follow.

 

Yeah....Dooku Captured is kinda ridiculous when you look at the Season Six Episode "The Lost One". Dooku tears through a small army of Pyke mercenaries all by himself. I justify Dooku getting captured by Hondo with the reasoning that in that moment Dooku was surrounded and didn't have a good chance of taking all the pirates down without getting seriously injured. But I agree with you, Force-wielders aren't superheroes or gods, even the most powerful ones. With the right weapons or numbers they can be taken down.

 

Vader gets a pass I believe do to his deal because A: he's a cultural phenomenon, B: he does have real legit experience fighting armies from the Clone Wars.

Vader's not invincible, but by his very nature, if he loses too many times, it does lessen the impact of the character. He is THE Dark Lord, the Dark Knight, tapping into that deep collective unconscious. Writers are being very, very careful this time to show that while Vader can be put a temporary disadvantage, it doesn't last. And when it doesn't last, you're gonna die. Or be smart and fake your death like Alphra. I don't expect him to solo garrisons frequently, he has people do that for him. But he *could* if he needed to. Neither extreme needs to be shown all that often.

There were really only three other Jedi capable of keeping pace with Anakin, Obi Wan Kenobi, Mace Windu, and Yoda. And none of them willing to tap in the darkside. Not that its stronger, but its effect in a war is more immediately practical.

 

I always wanted it revealed that Starkiller was getting help by Palpatine or Vader allowed Starkiller to beat him, believing the Emperor would save him in TFU.

But I actually felt his "defeat" in TFU2 was one of his most badass moments.

 

It's an improvement over the TFU at least.

I always liked the Valance fight as an example of someone "almost" getting Vader. Was he doomed? Yes. But using a concealed heavy blaster to drop Vader to his knees? The comic makes a BIG deal out of that. Then he goes on to nearly drag Vader to his death, but of course he fails.

 

Luke's defeat in ESB is a classic moment of cinema for multiple reasons.

1. Luke looks like a badass standing up to Vader for as long as he does.

2. Vader is one of the few villains in the history of cinema to beat the hero.

3. Vader in rewatch is clearly toying with Luke as the moment Luke scores a hit, Vader ends the fight.

 

As a nice detail, I always liked that Vader used the "back" edge of his sword for the very literal disarm. A sword technique like that would be impossible for any weapon but a light saber.

 

Interesting quote from the new Princess Leia Scholastic book, courtesy of GrandAdmiralJello.

"With the New Republic in tatters and the First Order rebuilding, there has never been a more vulnerable moment in our history. Although it is far from certain how the Republic might be rebuilt, General Organa seems convinced that the Jedi - her brother, Luke - will be a key element in it's salvation."

I like the idea that the galaxy needs a stable Republic and a strong Jedi Order. They both remain the twin pillars of galactic freedom, prosperity, and harmony.

I'd prefer an independent Jedi Order that is aligned with, but not part of, a stable & democratic New Republic.

--Adm. Nick

 

I agree as well.

I admit, a part of me is most intrigued by the Knights of Ren and I'm hoping they turn out to be "Law and Order Sith." Basically a bunch of guys who really believe in using their powers for the Greater GoodTM but having a wholly different idea of what that constitutes than the Jedi.

Sort of the First Order's Imperial Knights.