Lit From Endor to Exegol - The State of the Galaxy Discussion Thread (Tagged Victory's Price Spoilers)

Something to remember....everyone is the hero of their own story.

 

They were armed! With weaponised fruit! Many stormtroopers fell to fragmentation apples and liquid oranges.

 

Hosnian Prime is the capital of the New Republic and home of the home fleet. It's a military target!

Plus the villagers did shoot back! Crazy religious terrorists!

 

What about the billions of civilians on Hosnian Prime? And the Jakku villagers were disarmed and defeated. How does Kylo justify executing the unarmed and defenseless?

 

He thinks it's fine. It's not that he believes his actions are acceptable within the bounds of conventional morality, it's that as a dark sider he doesn't feel bound by conventional morality.

 

Easy. Necessary causalities of war (see also the arguments for the Death Star in Lost Stars) and eye witnesses respectively.

At the risk of getting "too real" for a moment, a brief look at human history will show you that people are capable of justifying and rationalizing all sorts of evil deeds. Between laser swords and hyperspace, Star Wars is full of impossible, unbelievable things. That a monster thinks he's in the right? Very believable.

 

The billions are Hosnian Prime were collateral damage. A terrible price to pay for galactic peace but a worthwhile one for galactic freedom. Freedom from the oppression and incompetence of the unlawful terrorist state of the New republic.

Eh, even at 9 years old, I understood that Palpatine doesn't feel the need to be a good guy. Vader, however, believes this is all for the greater good.

Kylo isn't a Sith. He's a Vaderite.

 

Palpatine doesn't feel the need to be a "good guy" but he still thinks what he's doing is right.

 

Yes, but what he considers right is benefiting himself. There's a very clear fact Palpatine doesn't have any delusions about his Empire bringing peace or justice or helping anyone but himself.

 

Absolutely.

 

The First Order isn't the Empire on the grounds that the former wouldn't even pretend they want to use a superweapon on peaceful Republic or unaligned worlds. Hux and perhaps Snoke took great pride in using it on Hosnian Prime and don't care for the backlash. Palpatine didn't much enjoy the backlash from Alderaan. It's more along the line the First Order don't care and believe in their strength as military superiors in the field. Palpatine was relying on growing the Dark Side as a Sith.

 

The First Order seem to think of themselves as the potential of the Empire, unencumbered by the need to keep up appearances.

 

Hux notably was horrified by the idea of blowing up the Resistance's home system because it included worlds not related to the New Republic. Alderaan was a military target and Geonosis was a world they had firmly under their thumb.

So far, the First Order has done far far less than the Empire has to innocents.

Mind you, they're still both Space Nazis but the idea the Empire is something the FO is worse than is ridiculous as the primary difference is the FO actually has people who believe in it versus just a bunch of corrupt oligarchs.

Even then, I'm starting to believe the incredible ZEAL is just Hux.

 

Tarkin clearly believed in the Empire, he was one of the ideological pillars of the post-ROTS Empire.

 

He WAS right! Long live the Empire!

I didn’t like him at first in the TESB novelization. The writer said Vader felt fear when he knelt before Palpatine. Vader destiny someone?

And he was such a jerk in ROTJ.

But the Thrawn trilogy and the Dark Empire comics changed me.

Then I saw Palpatine directed by Yoda in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels and realized how good an actor Ian is. TPM sealed deal and the NEU makes me love Sids more.

That said, DP is a good novel, but I wish Sids had killed his master prior to TPM events. It isn’t canon, so...

 

In fact, most of Plagueis is canon in what TVtropes.org calls "Broad Strokes" because Luceno went a bit crazy referencing it in Tarkin which IS canon.

 

This is what I feel they should have done with the history of the galaxy from Essential Atlas and Essential Guide to Warfare. Keep the broad strokes. There was a Pius Dea era, there were the Alsakan Conflicts, etc...you just need to keep the personal stories of the characters out of it and you don't have to re-invent the wheel.

 

I quite liked that element, actually! How fascinating that he was still alive in TPM!

 

I like it in the context that it underscores the Sith rules are made to be broken.

 

That part of the novelization, frankly, makes zero sense. Hux gleefully just destroyed an entire system with billions of lives, but suddenly is concerned about obliterating an uninhabited system with the Resistance base on it?

Based on what we see in TLJ, it probably had less to do with the loss of the system and more to do with his extreme vanity and desire to be the "hero" who vanquishes the Resistance. Hux is a jackbooted fascist who is playing general. Just look at his attack in TLJ. Ackbar masterfully breaks down why Hux is attacking in his manner... it's ego and desire to show off. Instead of coming in with the fleet, launching fighters, and committing to an actual engagement, Hux wants to play with his "prey" like a cat playing with a dead bird.

Hux is, IMO, the worst officer we've seen in these films. I LOVE the character, but as a military leader I'd rather have Ric Olie's obvious statements or Nek Bwua'tu and his battle simulations.

--Adm. Nick

 

Eh, I think it's an interesting nuance that Hux thinks total war against his enemies is perfectly justified but dislikes the use of force against all targets simultaneously. Then again, Hux actually believes his speech that the New Republic is an anarchic hellhole which is funding the Resistance to destroy the First Order and it's way of life. That they hate their freedom.

Mind you, General Hugs is better at his job.

 

Hux is a fool of the highest order. A "rabid cur" too, as Snoke points out. He's basically a kid who has been playing general for most of his adult life and thinks that his experience in battle simulations makes him a great leader.

Of course he actually believes his speech... he's been indoctrinated from youth. Plus had a horrible father. The sad thing about Hux is that he believes all the propaganda he's been spoon fed for 30+ years. He's all in, he also craves power. Frankly, I don't think Hux cares about the New Republic governing style at all. All he cares about is being the guy in charge of the Galaxy. Order is just a convenient cover, power is what he truly wants. Absolute power.

--Adm. Nick

 

unnnnliiiimited pooooowwahhhhh

 

Which is essentially all the Empire wanted to. That's the reason I want the whole First Order vs. Resistance/Republic story to be definitively ended in IX. If the franchise is gonna continue pumping out films and content set post-IX, I want something entirely new and exciting. Rehashing the same war, even in a context where the Good Guys are ascendant, wouldn't do that.

My ideal post-ST storyline involves the rebuilding of the Jedi Order and focuses on exploration. The Unknown Regions are still mostly, well, unknown. Let the Republic rebuild and have a new golden age of exploration. That would give TPTB near limitless creative freedom.

--Adm. Nick