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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit From Endor to Exegol - The State of the Galaxy Discussion Thread (Tagged Victory's Price Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralNick22 , Sep 6, 2015.

  1. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Nash thought they were amassing for a counterattack, but in reality they ended up fleeing. We already know that alot of Imperials died in their early attempts to enter the Unknown Regions, it was Snoke's knowledge that allowed some to survive. At the end of the day, it was survival of the fittest, and those that managed to live ended up becoming part of the First Order. A story set during those brutal early years of the Empire's remnants fighting to survive in the Unknown Regions would be VERY interesting to read.

    --Adm. Nick
     
  2. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    My headcanon is that Nash's fleet was discovered (either through fate or coincidence) by Corona Squadron and the crews turned over Nash and Dalven before fleeing at Rannd's orders, only to end up being destroyed by anomalies in the Unknown Regions. Nash reunites with Ciena in prison with Thane and Kendy as well (Nash is going to need tonnes of therapy - I've always felt he merely supressed very badly seeing what happened to his homeworld) while Thane tries and fails to reconcile with his brother.
     
  3. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    My head canon is that Nash found out Cienna was alive and went to kill her for treason...at which point Thane beats him to death with his bare hands.
     
  4. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Saw this on YouTube this morning. Basic recap, but pretty cool:



    --Adm. Nick
     
  5. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    I'm getting vibes now of the Sith Empire's retreat after the Great Hyperspace War in Legends. Vitiate/Tenebrae/Valkorion whatever his name is now led the Sith Empire remains on a purposely dangerous, roundabout way to Dromund Kaas, where rivals conveniently died on the way and Vitiate "saved" the Empire many times before finally landing on Dromund Kaas. Snoke could have done the same thing, "lead" the Imperial Remnant on some roundabout route, using the dangers to conveniently wipe out Sloane or whoever, make himself seem the savior until they finally settle on Ilum and turn it into Starkiller Base.
     
  6. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I was in a book anthology with Kevin J. Anderson, he's still writing. Hire him to do THE ESSENTIAL CANON.

    Have him explain what happened with the First Order.

    My headcanon is that everyone is preparing an epic mass De-Imperialization with show trials, imprisonments, executions and more until Mas Amedda surrenders with all of the Imperial officers ordered to surrender.

    Which means Cienna now can cooperate.

    Which INFURIATES Thane as she only does it after ordered.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  7. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    It's cool that you worked with KJA, although I think he's still kind of polarizing in fandom? A lot of people didn't agree with him doing his own thing on TOTJ (Veitch said something about Ulic being taken from him and ruined or something like that), Mara and Lando, Kyp getting off scot-free, Luke's characterization in the Jedi Academy trilogy (which some fans outright say I, Jedi was a retcon to), and the bizarre stuff like IG-88 taking over Death Star 2 which many fans feels detracts from ROTJ.

    And that's not even getting into the heated debate regarding KJA's work on the Dune franchise. I myself had issue with a violent and horrifying scene in Dune: House Atreides.

    Still, a 'Tales of the First Order' anthology might be a good idea, the way they had 'Tales of the Empire' or 'Tales of the New Republic' back in the day.
     
  8. TheRedBlade

    TheRedBlade Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Wildly off-topic, but CONGRATS, man. I can't imagine getting a chance to work with someone who was such a part of my childhood.

    That being said, I would have said that KJA was one of the authors I wanted to keep away from the sequels...until TLJ came out. I think that movie's approach to the Force was pretty in line with Anderson.
     
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  9. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    KJA may have his faults, but I don't think the main complaint about TLJ was what KJA would have done. KJA literally had Luke build a new Jedi Order in his trilogy, while TLJ tried to have Luke end the Jedi order forever.
     
  10. TheRedBlade

    TheRedBlade Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2007
    ...for the first half of the movie, until he came to his senses and completely reversed his decision. Even then, he couldn't help himself from training Rey a bit, even if it was only to prove his point.The people who are mad at the movie always seem to miss that part.

    Otherwise, there are echoes of the Second Imperium in the First Order, and of the Jania/Zekk dynamic in Ben/Rey. Luke is a more mischievous teacher than most of the EU wrote him. I'd have to crack LOTF open ugh [shudder], but I think TLJ's Luke might be closest to Allston's turn at the character. After all, Kylo Ren never made Luke move his feet.
     
  11. Ackbar's Fishsticks

    Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2013
    I did like that aspect of TLJ. Luke in his retirement years turns out to be a lot like Yoda during his.
     
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  12. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I'm now one degree of Kevin Bacon with KJA and Ed Greenwood both.

    It's a heady feeling.

    But while I don't agree with all of KJA's works, I loved the Essential Chronology and while Jedi Academy wasn't entirely my cup of tea--I think it added a bunch of stuff which later books picked up on.
     
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  13. TheAvengerButton

    TheAvengerButton Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Scattered thoughts on the First Order and Snoke. This reflects what is (IMO) the intention of the filmmakers and story writers regarding this new faction and their mysterious leader.


    The First Order is both better than the Empire and worse off than the Empire in different regards. They are stronger than the Empire in some regards and they are weaker than the Empire in some regards.

    Let’s start with

    Starkiller Base:

    Obviously it’s bigger than the Death Star and more powerful than the Death Star, but is it objectively better than the Death Star? No. The Death Star has it’s own power source. It can move anywhere in the Galaxy and still be able to destroy what it wants to destroy. Starkiller Base is more crude. It requires outside power sources to fuel its weapon. It is not at all self-sufficient. People talk about how more advanced Starkiller Base is than the Death Stars, but it’s actually quite crude, even down to its interior. It's built into cave walls and looks unsophisticated unlike the sleekness of the Empire’s tech.

    The Empire probably had the means and the idea to build Starkiller Base. Weaponry of its nature has been around since the glory days of the Sith, so it’s not hard to imagine the Imperials gained the knowledge to build something like it. It’s also not out of the question that the First Order were able to build it. They don’t have worlds to necessarily govern and they don't have the need for pretense to appear benevolent. They are a radical army first and foremost that embrace the totalitarianism of the Old Empire and the resources they plunder go towards building up their army and tech.

    The First Order as a threat:

    The First Order isn’t bigger and badder than the Empire in terms of numbers. In fact, the people who were wishing to see a Rebellion-like faction of evil are more right than they estimate. In TLJ we see exactly how the First Order learned lessons from the Rebellion in how to conduct warfare. Like the Old Rebellion they have a mobile flagship they can drift the galaxy in along with their fleet. This is how the Rebellion hid it’s fleet from the Empire, and it’s how the First Order hid its fleet from the New Republic. This is why they are more DANGEROUS than the Empire. They’ve spent all their resources on building tech that the Empire most likely made blueprints of, and now they are mobile and hard for an opposing fleet to find. The Supremacy also makes them self-sufficient. They can fix their battle-scarred ships on the Supremacy as long as it still functions.

    Snoke's Power Level (because we've been influenced too much by video games and Dragonball Z):

    Snoke isn’t more powerful than Palpatine. He is smarter in some ways and Palpatine was smarter in some ways, but if they went toe-to-toe Snoke wouldn’t stand much of a chance. He is afraid of the New Republic and he is very afraid of the Jedi in a way that suggests that he wouldn't be able to match their strength or resolve. That’s why the mobile command capital is so ingenious of an idea. He can hide behind the Supremacy and also be there to attack targets as he sees fit. The Emperor was mostly stationary hiding against the might of his Empire. The First Order and Snoke augment their limited numbers by using them intelligently.
     
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  14. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    I always suspected the reason Snoke never caused trouble in the Legends universe is because Palpatine quickly dispatched him the moment he resurrected in a clone body around the time of Dark Empire.
     
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  15. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    And to add to that: I think the reason Palpatine never had a clone body in the Canon universe is that the Contingency may have targeted Byss before he could take over a clone body and get used to it. :)
     
  16. Vialco

    Vialco Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2007
    I would think the sole reason for the Contingency was the fact that Palpatine didn't have any way to return from death. If he did, it makes no sense to burn his Empire to the ground.

    Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
     
  17. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Of course it does.

    In the six years it took him to recover in Legends, new Imperials seized the empire and they had to be dealt with. Destroying the Galactic Empire benefited his Dark Empire. A devastating surprise attack on an overconfident Republic was always going to be most successful.

    The Contingency destroying the Empire is perfect Legends sense to me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  18. KamNale

    KamNale Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2012
    I'm curious if the writers will ever mention the Emperor's cloned body in Canon. Or that he was to cocky and refused to have one.
     
  19. Vialco

    Vialco Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2007
    Hardly. Nearly every Imperial Warlord with a shred of self-preservation immediately swore realty to the Reborn Emperor when he revealed himself.

    Kaine, Harrsk, Delvardus, Teradoc, Isard, even Pelleaon. Each and every one of them bent the knee to Palpatine when he re-emerged from Byss. The only warlord that didn't recognize Palpatine's authority to rule was Thrawn.

    "I rule the Empire now, not some long-dead Emperor."

    It was no coincidence that Thrawn was disposed of prior to the Attack on Coruscant. No Imperial in their right mind would dare defy a living Palpatine, in command of an armada of Dreadnoughts from the Deep Core.

    If Palpatine returned to Coruscant once he reincarnated, mere weeks after Endor, the entire Empire would have come back together in days. Kaine, Zsinj, and the others would have flocked back to their Emperor's banner.

    Sidious didn't emerge for six years because he was horribly shaken by his defeat at Endor. Not because he was afraid his Empire wouldn't answer to his authority.

    Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
     
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  20. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    I know Zahn never intended this in a million years, but it would be funny if "But, it was so artistically done" was not a reference to Rukh's attack or Thrawn's campaign, but Thrawn's dying realization that he had been used as a tool to weaken the NR before Palpatine's return--that Palpatine's plan "But it was so artistically done."

    But how did Thrawn know Palpatine was alive? Palpatine used a Force projection just as Thrawn was dying, a projection only Thrawn could see, and told him so.
     
  21. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    But it was a cabal of Imperials that had gained power and was reluctant to return it that poisoned his clones and defeated him.

    Similarly, Devian, Hethrir, Lumiya and others did not obey the call to return.

    So... he was correct to destroy the Empire.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  22. MrDarth0

    MrDarth0 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Makes you wonder how much of a threat is the FO now?

    They lost the Starkiller Base. They lost the Supremacy (along at least 3 or 4 Star Destroyers plus a Dreadnought) and they lost Snoke.

    If we ignore the New Republic losses, the Resistance, in comparison to the hundreds of thousands of dead FO personnel and large amounts of equipment, lost few hundred people and some ships. That's a pretty good kill ratio for the Resistance. Even the Rebel Alliance wasn't this efficient against the Empire. Except for Ezra Bridger that is [face_laugh]
     
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  23. TheAvengerButton

    TheAvengerButton Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2011
    At best, I'd say they are crippled. I think the implication in TLJ suggests a massive sudden blitz on several systems. Without the Supremacy to help repair ships their war effort is probably slowed to a crawl. That's why I think we'll be getting a time jump in the next film.
     
  24. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    We all seem to be thinking along the same lines here - that there has to be a time jump for Ep IX.

    What if there isn't? What if, in great contrast to the other trilogies, the entirety of the ST takes place across 1-2 massively destructive weeks?
     
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  25. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I'm hoping about a decade of the First Order ruling the galaxy.