Lit From Endor to Exegol - The State of the Galaxy Discussion Thread (Tagged Victory's Price Spoilers)

Mind you, many people didn't think they went far enough and they let too many people get away.

Which is why Israel created Nazi hunters.

 

We're getting a bit off topic, folks. There are obvious historical and political parallels in the Star Wars Saga, but this thread isn't for discussing or debating them. There is a fine line between referencing the parallels and then having the thread devolve into discussing them.

--Adm. Nick

 

To re-rail, I would actually be interested in finding out who were the kind of people put on trial by the New Republic as well as who were let off as well as why.

Mas Amedda managed to escape being executed because of his willingness to surrender the Empire.

Ditto Sloane and the other FO founders.

Ciena Ree is certainly someone not guilty of any crimes against humanity but for the fact she was a supporter of Gallius Rax.

However, what about the Grand Moffs and Moff Balfours? The Grand Admirals? COMPNOR. Is being an Imperial illegal?

What steps were taken for De-Imperialization?

 

I asked Matt Martin about this last year. His comment (ie, his opinion, not stated fact yet) was that it was high ranking Imperial officials and military leaders that were tried. In other words, the New Republic didn't prosecute every single person that donned stormtrooper armor, flew a TIE, or worked in a Moff's office. Which makes a lot of sense. In general, like at Nuremburg, there would be an effort to convict the worst offenders and make an example of Imperial moffs, governors, and high ranking officers.

Mas Amedda truly fascinates me. Ditto post-Jakku Coruscant, where the New Republic is administering governance in conjunction with the local partisans, while Amedda is basically a toothless and powerless figurehead. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there are some truly awesome stories that can be told in the early New Republic years. Rebuilding, disarmament, reparations, the rise of new crime lords- so much potential.

--Adm. Nick

 

Mind you, Mas Amedda's position hasn't changed, which is the interesting point about him. He was never a man who actually cared about the Republic or Empire and more or less just administrated in Palpatines' name before switching to administrating in the New Republic's name until things were cleared up.

 

Thanks to @MrDarth0 , I couldn't recall the exact range of sentences Nuremberg off the top of my head.

 

I’d imagine anyone who participated in or provided significant assistance to Operation Cinder, the destruction of Alderaan, or the various planetary genocides would probably be facing trial.

It certainly makes Admiral Versio’s decision to go down with the ship more interesting- if he had allowed Iden to take him prisoner, he may have been facing execution anyway for commanding the destruction of Vardos.

 

I maintain that Mas Amedda and Sim Aloo and Janus Greejatus and whomever doing drunken parties in the Jedi Temple is the comedy film that Star Wars needs.

 

Destroying Vardos was not war, it was pest control.

 

Which reminds me of one of my favorite deeply underused characters in the old EU; Xaverri the trickster-vigilante hunting surviving Imperial war criminals. Would've loved a series or an anthology about her and her Simon-Templar-meets-Simon-Wiesenthal routine.

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I don't think there's a good "in-universe" explanation for Cienna's "war criminal" status, because I think the "out-of-universe" explanation is simply "Claudia Gray was under the impression that you're a war criminal if you were a high ranking member of the enemy's side and/or fought with the enemy at all". This is backed up by Ciena herself believing she's a war criminal, and lines like "Her appointed defender had shown her the list of charges against her; it spooled down several screen lengths and elaborated with great detail her service at the battles of Hoth, Endor, and Jakku. She could not deny that she was responsible for every single item on that list". Or "They'll free the clerks and the cleaners. Not a captain of a Star Destroyer".

This is nothing new. As alluded to in my signature, Star Wars writers often don't seem to realize that pretending a surrender or dressing in enemy uniforms are war crimes after all. But it does considerably muddy the waters here and make it almost impossible for us to determine what the galaxy's rules and attitudes regarding war crimes actually are. It's like, if a cop show has the old "You didn't read the criminal his Miranda Rights, so he's free to go" BS. At what point do we say "Let's just write it off as the show's writer not doing the research of how Miranda Rights work", and and what point do we say "This cop show must take place in an alternate universe where Miranda Rights work differently"? That's why there really isn't a good in-universe explanation.

If I had to come up with an in-universe explanation, I'd like to believe it's simply a result of the New Republic initially charging the high ranking officers, then sifting the wheat from the chaff later. I know others like to point to this as evidence that the New Republic is becoming corrupt and is choosing vengeance instead of justice, using Cienna as a scape goat. But given the other stuff in that last chapter I think any such subtext is unintentional. It's worth noting that even though Cienna thinks the New Republic is going to make her an example, she marvels at how well they've been treating her and believe they will keep her in jail the rest of her life, not execute her. And even cynical Thane thinks she'll be let out of jail soon, either because a) she'll give them useful intel b) he'll pull strings c) the sheer fact that there are billions of former Imperials means they won't waste time with her.

 

Dressing in enemy uniforms is not going to be a war crime for the Rebellion as the Empire has no treaty with the Rebellion and does not recognize their lawful combatant status. There's going to be a lot of military rules which simply won't apply due to the fact the Rebellion is an insurgency that is treated as a criminal organization by the Empire as well as the fact the Empire is considered illegal by the Rebellion's own charter (due to the fact it was founded by Senators of the Old Republic).

But Cienna can be charged with numerous crimes depending on what the circumstances of her employment in the Empire was due to the fact she was a captain promoted by Gallius Rax and participating at the Battle of Jakku. After all, he was a war criminal who had engaged in terrorist acts during peace talks and had seized power in the Empire via illegal means (since the Rebellion/New Republic recognizes Mas Amedda as the legitimate head of the Empire). Most likely she will be released but how she reacts to Amedda's orders to surrender and cooperate with the New Republic will be a deciding factor as that means she may be treated as (ironically) a traitor to the Empire.

 

It's already canon. We know that some Imperial officers, moffs, and governors defected (an in some cases defected their whole sector) to the New Republic. Now, we don't have the official correlation to the root cause being Operation: Cinder, but it the most obvious conclusion. Cinder would be the tipping point for any of the "law & order" or "generational" Imperials. I imagine that it was also the source of the many of the Imperial civil wars. Ciena noted the multiple folks claiming to be emperor, a combination of defections to the New Republic and civil wars between Imperial factions undoubtedly gave the New Republic a much easier time that it received in Legends.

Don't forget folks- in less than a year, the New Republic re-established the Senate, held elections, expanded it's reach into all major galactic regions, and was able to not only increase it's navy, but able to field new designs like the MC85, Starhawk, and Bunkerbuster. I'm about as big a NR fan as they come, but even I can acknowledge that a lot of their was achievable due to the after effects of Palaptine's Cinder.

--Adm. Nick

 

I suspect the big difference is the loyalty to the Empire was a lot less in canon than it was implied in Legends. The Empire was more overt, cruel, and hated by the public in general rather than just Operation: Cinder. We also have it established that the loyalty to the Republic was lesser in this version of the galaxy so that plenty of worlds were eager to throw off its shackles of oppression and actively resist the Empire. With a much more independence-minded galaxy and a weaker military, you can imagine people fighting back.

 

I still don't see the issue with how the New Republic treated Ciena's status as a war criminal. She fought under Rax's maniacal orders at Jakku. She was unwavering in her choice to fight against the New Republic there. Whether or not she's half-crazy from her issue with honor has no bearing on the fact that she refused to surrender.

 

Admiral Ciena Ree of the First Order!



Of course, she continues to obey orders even when they're evil and she believes the Empire is evil. Is she involved in Cinder?

 

Not really. She was in medical treatment for months after Endor, then was doing deskwork (identifying the dead and the missing) before being promoted to Captain right before the Battle of Jakku.

 

Not sure if everyone saw the solicitation for Poe Dameron #30, but we will see Black Squadrons search for allies of the Resistance during the events of TLJ. I'm beyond excited for this, this could give us some insight into the rest of the Galaxy or even show us one of the surviving New Republic task forces. Fingers crossed!

--Adm. Nick

 

The problem with 7-8 not having any time jump was there was no anticipatory material between episodes. Going back to the Star Wars Holiday Special (Boba Fett showing up) all the way to the Clone Wars 2D animated microseries (General Grievous appearing), Star Wars movies have a tradition of lead-in material featuring characters in the upcoming film. This has been lost recently (with some exceptions like Rogue One Catalyst).

I read that the script for 9 is already finalized? So, all LFL needs to do is let the licensing be aware of key characters and elements and the tie-ins fill in the rest! Maybe we'll see Rey recruiting a young woman to be her first apprentice! Maybe old Lando will show up in this comic!

 

Yes, the First Order can get some solid wins!

 

The destruction of Hosnian Prime doesn't count?

 

God almighty, no! You expect them to give us bits of information knowing what we'll do with it? Which is mine the crap out of it and then extrapolate speculation to the nth degree!

More seriously, I'd love for it to happen but I'm pretty sceptical.

 

And why not do that? We knew the plot of ROTS from the novelization and gameboy advance game which came out some time before the film. ROTS was still a big hit.

Honestly, good leaks will increase anticipation for a film and that's good marketing. Unlike, say, Solo where no one knows it's coming and no one cares to see it. Maybe Disney should take a look at their marketing strategy if they want Star Wars to recover from Solo.

 

This probably ain't the place for it, but I really don't understand what the hell anyone was thinking with Solo. Why would you place it in the middle of the year instead of sticking to the usual one-year-apart formula? Why would you wait as long as you did to release a trailer?