Pittsburgh, PA From the Jedi Library

Discussion in 'NorthEast Regional Discussion' started by BrendonWahlberg, Jan 2, 2003.

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  1. BrendonWahlberg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 2
    I'd like to begin a new topic in order to contribute a little more to the group. Because I have such a large SW library going back to 1977, and because there are many younger members who may find something of interest in the old material, I decided to post something taken from that library once a week, complete with source info. I will do this regularly, but anyone who wants to add to the thread may do so. I ask that the information be quoted accurately, that the source be fully noted, and that the info should be fun and interesting.

    Here we go, with a section taken from my copy of Star Wars poster monthly #4, copyright 1977 by Paradise Press. Each issue was three articles on a folded large poster, and you could buy it for $1.50 a month. In #4, writer Anthony Fredrickson told all about how the Stormtroopers of the Empire were actually clones, 25 years before Episode II came out.

    "Origin. The creation of an Imperial Stormtrooper. A cloned man is one of a group of genetically identical humans, an assembly line product. He is a thinking man, but he serves a specific purpose and no other. A clone has no mother; only his trainers, and he accepts his fate because he believes it is inevitable. A clone is, physically and emotionally, a normal man. He simply has no human rights and no name. He is the property of the Emperor. Soldiers fully formed in the growth tanks quickly proved impractical. Scientists found themselves the befuddled fathers of one hundred sixty pound blubbering idiots. A fetus is now removed from the hatchery after a gestation period of sixty weeks and is delivered immediately into the hands of its trainers.

    Training. As kids, Stormtroopers live like hardened cell block inmates only barely under control. Hundreds of nasty little orphans with only one thing on their minds: the sheer unparalleled joy of a good raid. These boys know that they are special and they strut with the proud arrogance of samurai. Their military education is picked up as natually as an infant learns to talk, and any purpose other than their preordained future as commandos is inconceivable. By the time they are actually contracted into service, each trooper is anxious to fulfill his common lifelong ambition: to wear the Imperial armor, and to be carried away with the Star Fleet into incredible adventure and battle. Trainees are generally devoid of imagination, but after years of rough talk and stories of conflicts lost and won, individual temperaments emerge."

    The article goes on to discuss armor and equipment, promotion and duty. But the interesting thing is the info on the clones. Was that complete speculation by the magazine at the time, as I once thought, or did the folks at Lucasfilm supply some information?
  2. Saberpilot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 4
    Hmm.. I think I remember reading something about that somewhere.. So lucas knew they were going to be clones all along?
  3. jedi_1966 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2001
    star 3
    Of the several of those fold out posters that there were,Brandon,I do have that one.Really cool that you brought that info out.
  4. BrendonWahlberg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 2
    Glad this "from the library" idea may be of interest to some people. I've read things from one end of this galaxy to the other, and I've seen a lot of strange stuff. Next week I'll post 1979 - 1980 script and magazine information about a "lost" character from The Empire Strikes Back - Sate Pestage, the Emperor's Grand Vizier.

    -Brendon
  5. JediDaveFromDaBurgh Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2002
    star 1
    Yeah, this is very interesting stuff. Can't wait! Great idea!
  6. RebelDawn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2002
    star 4
    Great idea, Brendon!
  7. greencat336 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2001
    star 5
    "Jedi seek to improve themselves through knowledge and training"

    Cool info you've posted Bendon and a good idea for a thread.
  8. BrendonWahlberg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 2
    Here again is something from the library. In The Empire Strikes Back, there is a character who was in the fourth draft shooting script, but not in the final film. His name is Sate Pestage, faithful Grand Vizier to the Emperor. In that draft, Vader must contact the Emperor as he does in the final film. But he must first talk to Pestage, who is sort of like the Emperor?s secretary. Here is scene 286:

    INT VADER?S STAR DESTROYER ? VADER?S CHAMBER

    Darth Vader stands before a shimmering holographic image which slowly comes into focus. The image is that of SATE PESTAGE, Grand Vizier to His Eminence, Emperor.

    VADER
    Sate Pestage, I would see the Emperor. He commands it.

    PESTAGE
    I must warn you, Lord Vader, The Emperor is in a foul mood. He bids you wait. Have you any progress to report?

    VADER
    The rebel base on Hoth has been destroyed. I am tracking down the survivors.

    PESTAGE
    The Emperor will be with you in time.

    VADER
    I wait at his convenience.

    This scene was described in The Empire Strikes Back Official Collector?s Edition magazine, 1980, Paradise Press. Their plot synopsis on page 24 says, ?The first to appear in Hologram is Sate Pestage, the Emperor?s Grand Vizier, who warns of the Emperor?s black mood. Vader eagerly reports the rebel base is destroyed, that survivors are being mopped up?but is told to wait.?

    I guess the scene was dropped because it diminished Vader?s character to have to wait, when he was already summoned. Sate Pestage next appeared in the ?Dark Empire Sourcebook? by Michael Allan Horne, for West End Games SW Roleplaying game (1993), although he did not appear in the DE comic series. Pestage is described as sealing the Emperor?s secret archives, then going into exile on the planet Byss, where he serves the clone Emperor.

    Later, in the Mike Stackpole X-Wing comics story, ?Mandatory Retirement? (#35), Pestage, now Leader of the Empire, is shown being killed because of a plot cooked up by Ysanne Isard, an event mentioned earlier in the X-wing novels. The comics portrayal of Pestage as disloyal to the Emperor and ignorant of Palpatine?s cloning project disagreed with the information in the prior RPG sourcebook. Thus, to fix the problem, it was later written in 2002?s New Essential Guide to Characters, by Dan Wallace, that Pestage did go to Byss but left a clone of himself to rule on Coruscant? and the clone was killed in the comic issue. (See the Sate Pestage entry in that essential guide).

    A younger Pestage appears in an EU story in SW Gamer magazine #2 (?The Monster? by Dan Wallace), acting as an agent who hides the evidence of Senator Palpatine?s misdeeds.

    Because there was evidently no art done to show how Pestage would have looked, the comics artists seem to have used the image of the old Kenner ?Imperial Dignitary? action figure for reference.
  9. RebelDawn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2002
    star 4
    This is VERY cool, Brenden! I like reading this stuff.
  10. Saberpilot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 4
  11. Noble_Kale Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 2
    Great Info Brendon! Great Idea.
  12. greencat336 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2001
    star 5
    Here's a question for the 'librarian' . . .

    We all know the Jedi Code (Peace over Anger . . . There is no ignorance there is knowlegde . . . Jedi are the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy . . . )

    But, the Code was never actually said in any of the movies. So, who came up with it? Most likely some author in the EU universe, but was it a novel or comic? And who first wrote it?

  13. BrendonWahlberg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 2
    I first saw the Jedi code (There is no emotion, there is peace, etc.) in the 1987 book "Star Wars - The Roleplaying Game" by Greg Costikyan and West End Games staff. This was the first book put out for the game, I think, and the code is on page 69. If it appears any earlier, and anyone knows where, then please correct me. Good question.

    My next "From the Library" will be a short discussion about: What is the "Journal of the Whills"?

    But anybody else with a cool old source, feel free to add to the thread.
  14. BrendonWahlberg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 2
    For this "from the library", I'll tell what little is known about the "Journal of the Whills."

    The first place the public ever saw the phrase was in the beginning of the novelization of Star Wars (1976), ghost written by Alan Dean Foster and based on Lucas' script. It was the source of the following description of the first film's backstory:

    "Another Galaxy, another time. The Old Republic was the Republic of Legend, greater than distance or time. No need to note where it was or whence it came, only to know that...it was the Republic. Once, under the wise rule of the Senate and the protection of the Jedi Knights, the Republic throve and grew. But, as often happens when wealth and power pass beyond the admirable and attain the awesome, there appear those evil ones who have greed to match. So it was with the Republic at its height. Like the greatest of trees, able to withstand any external attack, the Republic rotted from within, though the danger was not visible from the outside. Aided and abetted by restless, power-hungry individuals within the government, and the massive organs of commerce, the ambitious senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President of the Republic. He promised to reunite the disaffected among the people, and to restore the remembered glory of the Republic.
    Once secure in office, he declared himself Emperor, shutting himself away from the populace. Soon he was controlled by the very assistants and boot-lickers he had appointed to high office, and the cries of the people for justice did not reach his ears. Having exterminated through treachery and deception the Jedi Knights, guardians of Justice in the galaxy, the Imperial governors and bureaucrats prepared to institute a reign of terror among the disheartened worlds of the galaxy. Many used the Imperial forces and the name of the increasingly isolated Emperor to further their own personal ambitions.
    But a small number of systems rebelled at these new outrages. Declaring themselves to be opposed to the new order they began to restore the Old Republic. From the beginning they were vastly outnumbered by the systems held in thrall by the Emperor. In those first dark days it seemed certain the bright flame of resistance would be extinguished before it could cast the light of new truth across a galaxy of oppressed and beaten peoples..."
    From the First Saga
    Journal of the Whills

    But there was no explanation of what the Journal was. In Starlog Magazine #127 (1988), Lucas was asked that very question.

    Starlog: What is the Journal of the Whills?
    Lucas: I'm not sure I can explain that. It's where the Star Wars saga came from; it was a larger work that I had been working on, of which Star Wars was just a piece.

    Further explanation is given on page 6 of a book called Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays, by Laurent Bouzereau (1997), which notes that the real first appearance of the Journal in print was at the beginning of Lucas' script drafts 2 and 3 (although the public didn't see these). The second draft as well as the third draft began with the following quote: "And in the time of greatest despair there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as: THE SON OF THE SUNS." Journal of the Whills, 3:127

    George Lucas: "Originally, I was trying to have the story be told by somebody else; there was somebody watching this whole story and recording it, somebody probably wiser than the mortal players in the actual events. I eventually dropped this idea, and the concepts behind the Whills turned into the Force. But the Whills became part of this massive amount of notes, quotes, background information that I used for the scripts; the stories were actually taken from the 'Journal of the Whills.'"

    From my own reading of the drafts, I know that the "Son of the Suns" was a figure of prophecy, the son of the aged Starkiller who would bring down the Empire. It turned out to be Luke Starkiller in the second draft. In the third draft, the quote had nothing to do with the story.

    In the actual films, the Son of the Suns was cut
  15. jaster_meerle Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2002
    star 3
  16. Noble_Kale Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 2
    Thanks Brendon. Great Info!
  17. Saberpilot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 4
    O.O
    Wow. That's all I can say.
  18. greencat336 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2001
    star 5
  19. corran_16201 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 3
    cool stuff really interesting
  20. BrendonWahlberg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 2
    Hello, and this is from the library. This time we look at the scene of the smashed arm, a bit that was in script drafts 1, 2, and 3 of Star Wars, but was dropped for the final film. See how Lucas uses the same scene in different contexts, with very similar wording but different characters. Lucas stubbornly refuses to give up on ideas ? that?s why in 1999?s Phantom Menace, he was still using ideas from his first draft from 1975! Here?s the scene:

    From Draft #1: (A discussion of whether General Skywalker will train Annikin Starkiller)

    GENERAL
    Old friend, you do me too much honor. I was never a match for you. Why don't you finish his training yourself?

    KANE
    I'm too old, Luke. I can't go on... You must finish it.

    GENERAL
    What kind of talk is this? You're not the old Starkiller I remember. Too old?!?

    Starkiller suddenly ignites in a rage and swings his left forearm down with a mighty blow across the solid chrome desk the general is sitting on. The old Jedi warrior's forearm cracks in two, spewing forth wires, and many fine multicolored electronic components. The artificial limb flops lifelessly to Starkiller's side. The warrior rips open his tunic, revealing a plastic chest stuffed with flashing electric parts.

    KANE (angrily)
    I'm not the same. There is nothing left but my head and right arm... I've lost too much, Luke...I'm dying.

    The general bows his head in sorrow for one of the greatest warriors in the galaxy and a dear friend.


    Okay, now we go to Draft #2: (Han Solo tries to give a pep talk to his friend Montross)

    HAN
    There's no time. What kind of talk is this? Where's the old Montross that single-handedly destroyed a colony of Banthas and rescued me from the very jaws of death?? Montross, the greatest science officer in the galaxy, too old?!

    MONTROSS
    You young fool!

    Montross suddenly ignites in a rage and swings his left forearm down with a mighty blow across the metal rail of the gantry. The old science officer's forearm cracks in two, spewing forth wires, and many fine multi-colored electronic components. The artificial limb flops lifelessly to Montross Holdaack's side.

    MONTROSS (CONT'D)
    You know, there is nothing left but my head and right arm... I've lost too much, Han...I'm dying...I'm dying this time...I'm losing control.

    Han bows his head in sorrow and embarrassment for one of the greatest warriors in the galaxy and a dear friend.

    See the pattern? Now we go to Draft #3: (Luke gives Ben Kenobi a pep talk)

    LUKE
    But the Sith Lords are involved! Whatever information this R-2 unit
    is carrying, it must be awfully important. They're probably looking
    for him... I'm no match for the Sith. This is a Jedi's work. This is your responsibility!

    BEN
    Not any more!

    The old man suddenly ignites in a rage and swings his left forearm down across the solid metal table with a mighty blow. His arm cracks in two, spewing forth wires and electronic components.

    BEN
    I'm not the same. I'm too old. I've lost too much. You don't seem to
    realize I've become an outlaw, to be hunted... and killed.

    Luke bows his head in sorrow for one of the greatest warriors in the galaxy and a fallen idol.

    Okay! See how the idea refuses to die? Now, will Anakin smash his arm in Episode 3??? We?ll have to wait and see.
  21. jaster_meerle Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2002
    star 3
    wow that's cool
    this stuff is great
  22. greencat336 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2001
    star 5
    I had noticed that Uncle George was a bit obessive with chopping off arms (that would be a good triva question. List everyone who has an arm or hand chopped off with a lightsaber in the movies) :D
  23. BrendonWahlberg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 2
    In 1980, a book came out called ?Once Upon a Galaxy: A Journal of the Making of The Empire Strikes Back?, by Alan Arnold. Here is part of one of the George Lucas interviews in the book (p. 222-224) I?ve added a little information in brackets.

    AA: When did you begin to write Star Wars?
    GL: It is difficult to pinpoint the moment when thinking about it evolved into actually putting it down on paper, but it was about 1973. [A 13 page treatment is dated May 1973.]
    AA: How did the characters evolve?
    GL: They all came out of one composite, Luke was the composite, which is another way of saying they came out of me.
    AA: You were the composite, your subconscious?
    GL: I was dealing with two opposites, and these are the two opposites in myself ? a naïve innocent idealism and a view of the world that is cynical, more pessimistic. My starting point was the idea of an innocent who becomes cynical. Should Luke be a brash young kid or an intellectual? Should he be a she? At one point, I was going to have a girl at the center. Luke Skywalker might never have been; he might have been a heroine. Leia came out of Luke, so to speak, just as Han did, as the opposite of Luke. Han Solo evolved from my wanting to have a cynical foil for the innocent Luke. A lot of the characters came out of Luke because Luke had many aspects. So I took certain aspects of the composite Luke and put them into other characters.
    AA: How did the story take shape?
    GL: Originally the story was about an older brother [Deak Starkiller] coming to find his younger brother [Luke Starkiller] , who?s living on a farm, so that together they can rescue their father, an old Jedi [The Starkiller ? this describes the plot of the 1975 second draft]. The older brother is a battle-hardened warrior. This character evolved into Han, the other side of Luke and an older brother figure. [Actually, in the second draft, there was already a recognizable but bearded Han Solo ? the space pirate. But by the third draft, Deak is gone, and Han remains in the story.] Ben Kenobi developed from the father figure into a friend of the father. [Kenobi first appeared in the third draft, replacing The Starkiller.]
    AA: Darth Vader ? what was his derivation?
    GL: Darth Vader and Ben were developed in my first script ? it was their story. [From all the documentary evidence we have so far, this seems to be untrue.] When I wrote the second script it was later in time and Luke was the focus. I wanted to develop an essentially evil, very frightening character. He started as a kind of intergalactic Bounty Hunter [again, this is not supported by the scripts], evolved into a grotesque knight, and as I got deeper into the knight ethos he became more a dark warrior than a mercenary. Again, I split him up and it was from the early concept of Darth Vader as a bounty hunter that Boba Fett came.
    AA: Also in The Empire Strikes Back, you?ve introduced Lando Calrissian. How was he devised?
    GL: Since the Star Wars saga is essentially about Luke?s background and his destiny, I wanted to round out Han Solo?s character a little more. So I brought in a character who was from Han?s past, a kind of alter ego for Han. Lando really evolved out of that. He is similar to Han, but different. Lando is more of a rogue, gambler, and con artist than a fast-talking, fast-shooting type.

    More next time?

    -Brendon

  24. greencat336 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2001
    star 5
    :D

    The evolution of SW. Cool.
  25. jaster_meerle Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2002
    star 3
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