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Full 3d Animation Fan Film

Discussion in 'Archive: Scifi 3D Forum' started by arkage, Mar 13, 2005.

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  1. arkage

    arkage Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2005
    Hi me and a buddy of mine have been working on a script for a Star Wars Fan Film for about 3 years now. We have finally completed it and now in the stage of answering a big question. Should we do a full 3d animated fan film or not? We would love for the whole movie to be CG but we have a problem. He has no experience or skill in animation at all nor do I. I am learning day by day how to do certain things but it is coming slowly. I am hoping to attend a Animation school in my state this summer. Just wanted to see what you guys think we should do or see what advice you would give. Also any other websites or tutorials that could help. thankz
     
  2. DVeditor

    DVeditor Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Well if you've never done 3D work and you want to make a good CG movie within a few years, (depending on the length of course) I would suggest you look to other methods until you've at least become accustomed to the 3D world. As far as tutorials go, there are some good links on SciFi-3D and zillions more yet to discover on the net - Google is a good place to start. 3Dlinks.com and 3dcafe.com also have some good resources. Good luck with the film!
     
  3. QuiGonDave

    QuiGonDave Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 29, 2004
    I ordered the 3Ds max 6 bible, that book is darn good and contains 1255 page's :D
     
  4. JinxKatarn

    JinxKatarn Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2001
    Honestly, I would tell you not to. I've been working with 3D modelling since '98 at a self-taught pace and its taking me forever just to get the CG shots for my film together (as the guys on these boards know from helping me, heh heh).

    A lot...a LOT...goes into it. Setting up models, tweaking textures, creating lighting, characters, costumes, trying to get those things together. Composition, special effects, sound effects, storyboarding, timing, re-rendering, upgrading your PC--it's a very long process.

    I've been trying to nail down a 10 second shot I plan on splitting in half with a seperate 2 second shot, and it's taken me about a week to get the animation exactly how I want, fix the lighting, make sure it looks good on the TV (which is quite different from your monitor), render it out and then get into doing the post effects.

    If you think you have the dedication to see it through, I'd recommend waiting until at least you have some school under your belt.

    For tutorials, personally I recommend books if you're starting from scratch. Decide what aspect you want to learn (modelling, character modelling, textures, animation, etc.) and get a book on it. Not cheap, but you'll still find yourself digging the book out now and again in five years' time.

    Hope this helps...
     
  5. DVeditor

    DVeditor Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Good post Katarn - that's solid advice.
     
  6. Keimar_Venoso

    Keimar_Venoso Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2003
    I found this thread interesting because I am attempting to do some 3D work for my upcoming fan film. The entire film is not 3D, but some effects shots are. I am finding it rather effective to use compositing programs like After Effects and combustion to create shots, not just 3DS Max. I can sometimes get away with rendering a still shot of an environment and having the scene take place against that type of backdrop. Othertimes I do have to do some animating (nothing complicated, generally just camera moves and the like).

    My question is this. For someone who is generally knew to 3D animation, what is the best way to learn? I have been searching (and usually finding) for tutorials on certain aspects of animating, but is there a better way to go? If anyone knows of a particular book about animating in 3DS that would be great. It may not be at the local library yet, but I can request books and they usually end up buying them. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all.
     
  7. DVeditor

    DVeditor Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Online tutorials are a GREAT way to learn - I just read them as I find them. Even if it's not written for your chosen application it can be helpful sometimes.

    Books - goto Amazon.com and search 3D Studio Max. You'll get tons of results and can pick your reading flavor. Large 3D sites like CGTalk.com, 3Dlinks.com, and 3DM3.com usually have a whole pile of links for you to pick from. Or simply goto Google and enter what you'd like to know!

    Hope this helps - good luck!
     
  8. JinxKatarn

    JinxKatarn Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2001
    Thanks DV :)

    Keimar...honestly, decide what you would like to start doing and go from there. There is no real one-way to do that, though the nice thing about getting everyone's opinion is picking & choosing from there.

    For myself, I found learning composition for still shots of solids (versus organics, like characters) my starting point. That was back in the day of the Star Wars Modelling Alliance (SWMA), I would download models I wanted to use and setup a scene. They looked like ass and I feel myself shudder slightly looking back at them, but I appreciate it got me to where I was.

    When I stepped up to 3D Max it was R2 at the time, so I bought "Inside 3D Studio Max 2" volumes II & III (never found the first volume). Bet you can see these big blue monsters on Amazon still. Vol II was about modelling and materials, Vol III was animation. It takes a lot of dedication & interest to make yourself good at this, but if you sit down and force yourself from page one to the last page doing every lesson you'll know your way around very, very well.

    After that I moved to using online tutorials. I had such a little understanding before that I was just trying to recreate tutorials in my art, instead of learning from it and adapting it in my own way. After going through the blue monsters, I was ready to bend stuff to my will (I thought).

    Over time, you'll find what aspect you like better. Me, I love modelling starships & animating them. Hate texturing but do a decent job.

    On my bookshelf I've got...

    -Inside 3D Studio Max 2, vol II & III
    -Inside 3D Studio Max 3 - Modelling, Mats, and Rendering
    -3D Studio Max 3 Magic (great book, even now)
    -3D Studio Max 3 FX & Design
    -3ds Max 4 Workshop (crap book)
    -Mastering the Art of Production with 3ds Max 4
    -3ds Max 4 Media Animation
    -Character Animation 2 (non-platform specific, good for animation theory of characters)
    -Modelling a Character in 3DS Max (by Paul Steed---AWESOME book if you want to get into character stuff)

    Also have a "sequel" to Paul's book for character animation, also a wonderful read.

    It's an expensive hobby, but if you take your time and really do lessons you'll find yourself having quite some time between purchases.

    I hope this helps...feel free to e-mail me if you want help and/or critique with this, I love helping new people get started with the 3D world--but only if you're serious about it (kindarin@new.rr.com).
     
  9. arkage

    arkage Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2005
    Well thank you guys for your advice. I get to go enroll in the animation school this friday and that we help me a lot. Thank you again.
     
  10. DVeditor

    DVeditor Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Good advice again Katarn - I really respect all that you've been saying. Just wanted to tell you that and also let you know that I too remember the days of SWMA...I loved that site...

    Anyway, good luck to both of you and if there's anything I can do let me know!
     
  11. Fate_of_Man

    Fate_of_Man Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Well I would not say the script is finished, I do have it all worked out, just adding in details like dialog and action. We agreed that the hardest part of animation work would be the lightsaber combat and lip sinking with the dialog. The movie I am aiming for 1 hour at least for the length.
     
  12. George Mezori SCIFI 3D

    George Mezori SCIFI 3D Scifi 3D Forum star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 1999
    Check out Amazon for books. For good prices and reader reviews. I'm selling a lot of my books there too.
     
  13. Keimar_Venoso

    Keimar_Venoso Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Thank you for the advice everyone. I appreciate it. I'll hopefully be churning out some scenes within the next couple of months. I'll post some pics once I have something to show. Thanks agains.
     
  14. -OC-

    -OC- Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Full 3D fan film... My advice is : Give up. That's not very nice way to say it, but from my own experience, I know it's not a good idea.
    Like many noobs, when i installed 3dsmax for the first time (an accident, it was on a cd and I didn't know what it was) I thought that with a little practice I could make a kick ass CG movie in a couple of monthes. And of course, all I was able to do was crappy rendering with swma meshes (I don't say swma meshes were crappy, but my renders were)
    Today is different, I'm not a noob anymore I can model and animate characters, the most difficult part. Does that mean I could do it today? No, Because today I know how hard it is and the amount of work it represents. I know I can't do it, not a full cg film, not my script.
    But I didn't trash my project, I still like the script I've written and I work a bit on making this universe real somtimes. I model characters and ship for fun, even if I know there won't be any film. I make teaser images for fun, and there will be a trailer, one day.
    Why am I telling my life? Just to say that I try not overhestimate my real capacities, what I used to do a lot before : "sure I can work on your fanfilm, I only have three others to finish, and my final exams next week."
    You're saying you want to do a cg film while you don't even know if you would be able to make a single character, and that's a mistake many fanfilmers make. Sure CG look easy when you watch Shrek or the Incredibles.
    But I don't say CG is impossible, you just have to start with a smaller project. I working on a SHORT CG fanfilm with another guy from Weta Digital. Even him, who is not a beginner, doesn't want to make it longer the 4 minutes. It's already huge, for the quality we try to reach. Maybe it will be done in 2 years! And it will be the best CG fanfilm ever made. Short, but good. Size doesn't matter (Except for boobies)
     
  15. DVeditor

    DVeditor Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Eh, a few of those comments were unnecessary OC. While it is good to relay practical experience that you have had, it's never good to tell people to give up. There are lots of ways you could have shown the difficulties you've faced over the years without bragging or clamping whatever ideas arkage has. What if the imagined film that was mentioned was only 3 minutes long? Everyone starts somewhere my friend - even the people at Weta Digital. My advice is to attempt a more helpful approach when talking to someone who just wants to try some new things. There's a difference between presenting realities you've encountered and what you said. Just my two cents.
     
  16. Jedi2016

    Jedi2016 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2000
    The Doc has a point, though. From observation of these forums, it's quite clear that the vast majority of people who get into 3D around here eventually give up because it's not nearly as easy as the BTS docs on the DVDs would lead you to believe.

    Length is a big issue, but so is quality. Either way, even for a short film, I wouldn't suggest doing it with just one or two people. It'll end up taking FAR longer than you think.

    As an example, I'll briefly mention a project I'm working on.. full-CGI fanfilm, etc, I think around 10-15 minutes, give or take. We've got a crew of around forty people. Of those people, the "noobiest" has been doing CGI for around three years or so.

    And even with a crew that size, it's still many many months of work. I'd say we've been at it almost six months or so, and haven't even gotten to animation yet.. the models are still being made. Believe me.. OC has a very good point, and while he might seem a bit negative, a lot of people truly underestimate just how much hard work full-bore CGI really is.
     
  17. DVeditor

    DVeditor Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2001
    I fully respect the amount of time and effort that goes into CG, I just hate to see people get all over those that are just getting started. Information never be distorted of course, I just meant that telling someone to "give up" wasn't being very helpful. Yes it takes loads of time, yes it's virtually impossible with just a few people, and yes it's wise to reveal the scale of a full CG production, but I just think there are more encouraging ways to go about it. Just my two cents.
     
  18. JustinZ

    JustinZ Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 23, 2003
    While I don't disagree with anything that has been said about the difficulty of making a fully 3D fan film, it can still be doable if you know your limits and stay within them.

    As an example, I'm still a novice at 3D, but I made Recon Squadron all by myself, in six weeks. I was entering this in a contest, so I had a strict deadline to meet. I knew that if I were overly ambitious, I couldn't finish it, so I chose to design the story and the shots around what I knew I could do.

    I knew that I wouldn't be able to make extremely realistic humans, so I made the main characters X-wing pilots. The helmet covers most of their head, so I didn't have to worry about hair. I also had most of the dialog shots be outside the cockpit looking it so that I could avoid extreme closeups. I also used the trick of modelling a lip mic onto the helmet, so that the mic blocked the view of their mouth. This allowed me to avoid lip-synching altogether.

    I did the same things with the other shots: kept them simple, but interesting. Even though my film is not particularly impressive technically, I'm very happy with the way it turned out, and I learned a ton about 3D animation while working on it.

    So my advice is to listen to what Jedi2016 and others have said and adjust your project to match where your skills are now. You can be successful if you don't overreach.

    Justin
     
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