Lit Galactic Empire hierarchy

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Rax, Jul 25, 2016.

  1. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    ISB always wear black trousers - Thrawn's are always white.
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  2. Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master

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    And we couldn't see Yularen's pants under that conference table, could we?
  3. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    We saw him later:

    [IMG]
  4. Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master

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    I so do NOT believe that is Yularen, it's not funny...
  5. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

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    Oct 29, 2012
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    Well, even if that guy isn't Yularen, ISB officers have black trousers anyway, that ship has sailed.
    [IMG]
  6. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    I'm pretty sure the mustached guy is played by the same actor - as well as wearing the same rank badge.

    While there was a certain amount of debate:

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Wullf_Yularen/Legends

    it seemed like the consensus was that a Robert Clarke (UK extra, not American actor) played Yularen in both the briefing scene and the corridor scene.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Apr 9, 2017
  7. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2016
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    It seems as if ISB and Intelligence agents both wear the same style of uniforms.
    [IMG]
    [IMG]
    [IMG]
    Is it the same in Canon?
  8. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

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    I think we have yet to see an Intelligence officer in canon.
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  9. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

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    Jun 19, 2016
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    Are Shadow Troopers a part of Adjustments? I don't remember their position in Intelligence ever being disclosed, besides the fact that they report to the Director. I think it would make a whole lot of sense for them to belong in Adjustments.
  10. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    Krennic may qualify - his division, Advanced Weapons Research, is a subdivision of Imperial Intelligence/Military Intelligence:

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Advanced_Weapons_Research
    They're usually portrayed as very elite stormtroopers, so in the Stormtrooper Corps.

    Adjustments hasn't been mentioned yet in the newcanon. The Ubiqutorate has - but it doesn't say what they are - only that they're housed in the COMPNOR arcology, which also houses the ISB:

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ubiqtorate

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Commission_for_the_Preservation_of_the_New_Order

    It's possible that they're the heads of the ISB (or at least connected to them) instead of the heads of Imperial Intelligence as they used to be.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Apr 9, 2017
  11. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Yes, it's my view that Krennic -- and his white/black uniform -- is Imperial Intelligence, based on that bit in the Visual Guide.
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  12. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    The Emperor making archrival organisations wear identical uniforms, would probably appeal to his sense of humour.
  13. Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master

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    But the Visual Guide specifies that the Advanced Weapons Research division is part of the ISB.

    Truthfully, we don't see much of the Imperial Intelligence agency ITSELF in the new canon much, if at all, do we? Could it be that the Story Group has decided that the ISB serves the story functions of a scary secret police organization better than Intell under the Isards did?
  14. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    True, on page 108 it refers to Krennic as "Director of Advanced Weapons Research for the Imperial Security Bureau" but it also says, on the same page:

    "After landing a lofty appointment in Imperial Intelligence, Krennic used every tool at his disposal to track down the fugitive Galen Erso."

    Elsewhere:

    Page 147:

    "Weapons development falls under the arm of Imperial Intelligence, and looks to its sister agency, the Imperial Security Bureau, to defend its secrets".

    Sounds like two agencies cooperating here.

    page 28 (Death Troopers):
    "Recruited by Imperial Intelligence, these troopers form protection squadrons of bodyguards and enforcers for the leadership of the Tarkin Initiative and key fleet officials."

    "Death troopers guard officers within the Tarkin Initiative - the secret think tank within the Advanced Weapons Research division responsible for the development of the Death Star. Director Krennic is rarely seen without them at his side."
  15. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    So.

    The Death Troopers page says that Death Troopers are recruited by Imperial Intelligence, and are part of the Tarkin Initiative of Advanced Weapons Research.

    Krennic's page says he's the director of Advanced Weapons Research of the Imperial Security Bureau, and then on the same page it says he has a lofty appointment with Imperial Intelligence.

    Then the page on the Scarif Vault says weapons research falls under Imperial Intelligence, which looks to its sister agency, the Imperial Security Bureau, to defend its secrets.

    So it's an inconsistent mess. But reading this all together, I think we would say that AWR and the Tarkin Initiative fall under Imperial Intelligence, but that the ISB is involved in protecting AWR. Krennic, as director of AWR, would fall under Intelligence.

    Either way there's a mess, but I think that's the logical reading of everything together.

    edit: lol I was ninja'd with every single one of these. :p
    Last edited by GrandAdmiralJello, Apr 9, 2017
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  16. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Could be that between Tarkin and Rogue One, the two agencies got a whole lot closer - maybe Krennic holds rank in both simultaneously?

    Yularen (at least for a while) was both a Colonel in the ISB, and Deputy Director of the Naval Intelligence Agency when it was folded back into Imperial Intelligence)

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Naval_Intelligence_Agency

    Newcanon Isard does seem to be with COMPNOR (and thus, the Head of ISB having to report to him) rather than the Imperial Military:
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Armand_Isard
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Apr 9, 2017
  17. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Which, to be fair, Imperial Intelligence never should've been. ISB was the secret police, ImpIntel was always military intelligence.
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  18. Charlemagne19 Force Ghost

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    Jul 30, 2000
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    The distinction was always an idea in the Imperial Sourcebook.

    ISB was the incompetent but brutally scary Gestapo as part of the larger Compnor SS.

    Imperial Intelligence was the scarily efficient but less idealogically pure Military Intelligence.

    Then thrown into confusion by the fact Isard was the crazy efficient fanatic.
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  19. godisawesome Jedi Master

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    Crazy efficient fanatic *when still subordinate to Imperial Command.* I'd say she clearly exposed her weaknesses outside of her field once Palpatine was dead and she started pulling some Rax style moves at a time when the Legends Empire still had a huge material advantage, and managed to set the stage for a temporary decapitation of Imperial power.

    On a seperate note, the new canon ISB seems like it might be a step up in competence, at least in so far as guys like Yularen and Kallus are under them.
  20. Charlemagne19 Force Ghost

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    Honestly, I think that's fanon. Isard's position in the books is the Empire is finished and she's trying to pull Hail Mary passes since it's only a matter of time until Coruscant is conquered. I remind you in the Rogue Squadron comic books that the Republic is attacking Core Worlds and defeating them despite their best efforts to take them. Coruscant's own defense fleet was seized by Admiral Drommel and taken to conquer his homeworld while it's Grand Admiral made himself a warlord of territory other than Coruscant.

    The Emperor, by this point, had taken the majority of the fleet into the Deep Core too.

    In short, Isard gets a lot of flack for the fact everyone wanted a scapegoat for the fact the Empire was already exhausted.
    Last edited by Charlemagne19, Apr 10, 2017
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  21. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

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    The Clone Wars-era Shadow Troopers belonged to Intelligence, and the Imperial successors report to the Director as well. I'm quite sure Shadow Troopers belong to Imperial Intelligence. Not all Stormtroopers are in the Stormtrooper Corps.
    Last edited by SpecForce Trooper, Apr 10, 2017
  22. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    I think of it as "all stormtroopers are trained in the Stormtrooper Corps - and start out overseen by the Imperial Army - but some transfer to other divisions - but retain their old affiliation".
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Apr 10, 2017
  23. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    While I would agree Isard as a wrecker is fanon (not necessarily wrong, just a fan theory), I disagree with the rest of your assertions. The Rebels were shocked they took Brentaal and that it was so easy. And Isard engineered it that way.

    Not necessarily as a wrecker but to seize power herself.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
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  24. Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Master

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    Aug 25, 2013
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    And also thrown into confusion by Kirtan Loor's status as a CorSec liaison. It's the kind of position you expect to see an officer of the ISB in, as part of their and COMPNOR's larger mission of policing and enforcing ideological conformity across the entire Empire. It's a little more puzzling that military intelligence would have that much jurisdictional overlap with beat cops.

    You can justify that by figuring that Loor was assigned there as part of a broader operation against a national security threat on the scale of Black Sun, or the Rebel Alliance, or the Justice Action Network, where the Imperial military would have a legitimate interest. But from what little we see, the impression is that he's just there as a sort of Internal Affairs officer from hell, keeping the flatfeet on their toes.

    That I recall, at least - I welcome corrections.
  25. Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Master

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    Aug 25, 2013
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    Then again, Kallus is just as much an argument against their efficiency as for it, considering what eventually happens with him.

    Well, that fits the "Imperial Intelligence are more efficient but less ideological" thing pretty well. Not only does she accept that the Empire's finished but she doesn't even care about trying to remake it so much as she does about just destroying the Rebellion (by her own admission). And when she pops up again later, she aligns with a convenient warlord rather than with the remnants of the Empire proper.