Lit Galactic Empire hierarchy

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Rax, Jul 25, 2016.

  1. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
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    Kirtan Loor certainly acted like an ISB member too. He was all about the bullying, ideaology, and appearance of efficiency versus actual practice of it.

    Mind you, I think Grand Moff Kaine had it best where he combined the two and just let it be.

    Then again, ISB was a minor thing in Legends while it's a much-much more important thing in canon. They also seemed to have merged them here as ISB is now headed by Isard Senior.

    Which is probably the work of Luceno more than Disney. Well played.
    Last edited by Charlemagne19, Apr 10, 2017
  2. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    Jul 30, 2000
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    To continue to play Isard's advocate, also.

    1. Isard's point is the Empire can be brought back together only once the Rebellion is destroyed as they kept exaggerating the Mutiny (which is technically only the war after Coruscant's retaking but works well for all the Empire's Civil War, IMHO).

    2. Real Isard actually allied with a very particular warlord in the EMPEROR. He was the one who ordered her to get the Lusunkya back. Fake Isard was the one allied with Krennel.
  3. Rax Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2015
    star 3
    Show Spoiler

    Imperial Navy Ranks

    Grand Admiral
    Fleet Admiral
    Admiral
    Vice Admiral
    Rear Admiral
    Commodore
    Captain
    Commander
    Lieutenant Commander
    Senior Lieutenant
    Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant
    Ensign
    Crewman


    Does these ranks seem accurate? Input?
  4. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
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    If you go by the Thrawn novel:


    Show Spoiler
    Captain as a navy rank is below Lieutenant Commander but above Senior Lieutenant. Captain as a position (commanding a starship) can be given to people of a number of ranks - but for the bigger starships like Star Destroyers, they tend to be Commanders or Commodores.

    Also, I'm not sure if Junior Lieutenant and Lieutenant are separate ranks - it may be a case of Junior Lieutenants being referred to as just "Lieutenant" most of the time, except on formal occasions.
  5. Rax Jedi Knight

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    May 1, 2015
    star 3
    Are you sure Lieutenant Commander is above captain? Captains usually command star destroyers or other ships, and they usually become admirals after that rank. For instance Piett. Wookieepedia also states that Lieutenant Commander is a rank between Lieutenant and Commander.

    Now if we are to look to US navy ranks, we can see a correlation.

    Show Spoiler

    [IMG]


    It would seem like they take much from the US navy ranks. The rank of commodore is canonized in star wars, but it's odd that we haven't really seen it in any big content because based on the rank's history, it means a commander of several ships, but not a fleet. Sort of a spot between captain and rear admiral, hence I placed the rank there.

    As for the discussion if Lieutenant is an actual rank, and not a way of talking to both a Junior Lieutenant and Senior Lieutenant, we are uncertain I guess.
    Last edited by Rax, Apr 14, 2017
  6. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    The novel made it pretty unambiguous.

    Show Spoiler
    Chapter 11: Thrawn is promoted from Senior Lieutenant to Captain - and given the position of first officer of the light cruiser Thunder Wasp - Commander Cheno holds the position of ship's Captain.

    Ensign Eli Vanto predicts of himself that "he might end up a captain, possibly even a lieutenant commander, but he would always be standing in the shadow of a full commander, an admiral, or a grand admiral".

    Chapter 15: Thrawn is promoted from Captain to Commander (position - captain of a ship - the light cruiser Thunder Wasp). Commander Cheno retired around this time. Thrawn's first officer is possibly one Lieutenant Commander Osgoode - he's the one Thrawn comms to when he's on the ground and wants the ship to open fire.

    Chapter 19: Thrawn is promoted from Commander to Commodore. Thrawn is given the position of Captain of the ISD Chimaera. Vanto is promoted to Lieutenant Commander. He is generally addressed as just "Commander".

    Chapter 23: Thrawn is now "Admiral Thrawn". He was Commodore in the previous chapter - there has been a timeskip. His first officer, Commander Faro, now holds the position of Captain of the Chimaera - but is still a Commander.

    Chapter 29: Thrawn is promoted from Admiral to Grand Admiral.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Apr 14, 2017
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  7. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

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    Oct 29, 2012
    star 4
    Does it now? Not that canon version of the page, at any rate.
  8. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    As mentioned here:

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rank_insignia_plaque/Legends

    even in the Legendsverse, there were hints that Commanders outranked Captains:

    Of course, not every aspect of the canon WEG rank system is clear. It is impossible for this simple system to provide an exact match with all the variety of movie badges. In addition, the relationship between Navy and Army ranks and insignia is vague and ambiguous. The bulk of confusion among fans has stemmed from the fact that the rank hierarchy associated with this system inconsistent with the real-world Anglo-American (UK/US) standard. The appearance of Commander ranking between Captain and Major is often remarked on. Nevertheless, the naval rank system of the Rebel Alliance, as well as real-world Scandinavian[6][7][8][9] and other European[10][11] navies, also places commanders above captains.

    And a person with the position of ship's captain will generally be addressed as Captain, even when their rank is Commander.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Apr 14, 2017
  9. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

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    Oct 29, 2012
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    The thing is, SW authors often have with the distinction between rank and position. Take the Databank, for example. Yogar Lyste's biography gallery says: "Formerly Supply Master, Lyste was promoted to Lieutenant within the Imperial ranks during his time on Lothal." How can you be promoted from a position to a rank? It's like saying "I went from being married to being 25."
    Last edited by LelalMekha, Apr 14, 2017
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  10. Rax Jedi Knight

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    May 1, 2015
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    I wasn't at your page.

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lieutenant_Commander
    Last edited by Rax, Apr 14, 2017
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  11. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

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    Oct 29, 2012
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    Ah, yes. Apparently, it doesn't include information from Thrawn yet. I'll have to check Lost Stars, Catalyst, and Thrawn in conjunction to solve that.
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  12. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    It's probably not been updated yet - while the statement is technically true - it fails to mention that it also ranks between Captain and Commander. Eventually someone will probably update it.


    I'm guessing that Ciena's "promotion from Commander to Captain" in Lost Stars can be retconned as "promoted to the position of Captain of the Inflictor, and the rank of Commodore." Or just, assume that any Commander given full command of a ship, when before, they didn't have it, sees it as a promotion - because their authority and responsibilities are greater.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Apr 14, 2017
  13. Rax Jedi Knight

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    May 1, 2015
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    With the list I provided, it seems to fit perfectly with Lost Stars.

    So it seems like there are two versions of the naval rank hierarchy.
    Last edited by Rax, Apr 14, 2017
  14. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    He could have been "Ensign Lyste" but with the Supply Master position giving him a slight authority boost on Lothal only, and the right to wear the 2x2 plack.
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  15. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

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    Oct 29, 2012
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    That's my assumption as well, but that doesn't make the Databank's wording correct anyway.
  16. Chris0013 Jedi Master

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    May 21, 2014
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    Little primer on the military...there is Rank and then Billet. Captain as a Rank can be below Lt Commander...however the Commanding Officer of a ship would have the Billet of Captain unless you start getting into Flag Ranks.

    You can actually have someone who is a junior rank billeted over a superior rank. In Boot Camp one of my Drill Instructors was a Sergeant....and a new rookie DI was a Staff Sergeant. The Sergeant was senior the Staff Sergeant by billet.
    Last edited by Chris0013, Apr 14, 2017
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  17. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2016
    star 4
    I've been trying hard to crack all the Special Forces divisions in the Empire. I've used sources from both timelines and updated them to their most recent appearances (Chronologically). Here's my list of all SpecForce units in the Empire:
    The first two are pretty self-explanatory, but the abundance of Army units has an explanation (With a bit of conjecture). Army Commandos are contingency forces found in local garrisons. CovOps Troopers are more of an umbrella term for small groups of operatives within larger infantry units. Storm Commandos have their own units and are assigned missions in advance, unlike Army Commandos. The 501st Legion is one of the oldest SpecForce units in the Empire and is quite unique; It is the personal unit of the Military Executor and will often see infantry assignments as well as special operations. The 1001st Legion, commonly known as Knighthunters are the newest SpecForce unit and was created solely for the use of hunting force users.
    Is this accurate? Are there more branches? My big question is where Inferno Squad will fall in this roster. They honestly seem like Storm Commandos to me. What do you guys think?
  18. Daneira Jedi Knight

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    Jun 30, 2016
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    Inferno Squad are Navy.
  19. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

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    Jun 19, 2016
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  20. Jedi Princess Jedi Knight

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    Mar 25, 2014
    star 2
    They seem to be a hybrid force, TIE pilots who are also Marines maybe? (Except under the Navy, not a separate branch like the U.S. Marines.) Sorry if I've missed an announcement on this somewhere, I'm just going off the images.

    [IMG]
  21. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

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    Jun 19, 2016
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    Navy Commandos that double as pilots. I'd say it warrants it's own branch. Think "Starfighter Commandos".
  22. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

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    Jun 19, 2016
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    Where are Terror Troopers in the Special Forces hierarchy? Also, is there a generic SCAR armor? Each member of 99 seems to have heavily customized armor.
  23. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    Jul 30, 2000
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    Honestly, I'd think the Inferno Squadron should be the equivalent of Storm Commandos.

    Because the Marines in the Empire ARE Stormtroopers.
  24. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

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    Jun 19, 2016
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    Stormtroopers are shock troops too. Storm Commandos were never pilots. If I were to guess, I'd say Inferno and their kin are the successors of these guys
    [IMG]
    Commandos that double as pilots.
  25. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
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