Speculation Galactic Empire in the Sequel Trilogy

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by The Hellhammer, Nov 14, 2012.

  1. The Hellhammer Grand Judicator of the New Film Territories

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    I've been thinking about the state of the Empire and a possible Remnant in the ST.

    To be quite honest, I find the idea of Empire being "destroyed" by their loss at Endor quite silly.

    Let me be clear - I am not talking about any EU material here, I am talking simply common sense.

    It is simply highly improbable that a vast, galaxy-spanning Empire simply crashes down in flames after the Battle of Endor. Yes, the Emperor is dead, so is Vader and so are quite a bit of high ranking officers and officials. This is a damned heavy blow, of course, but not one that results in all the Imperial forces throughout the galaxy just dropping their weapons and saying "Well, **** we lost." and going about their business.

    The gargantuan beast that is the Galactic Empire may be fragmented, demoralized and in chaos but certainly not defeated. As Tarkin says in ANH, the regional governors have direct control of their territories. That means that there is quite a big chunk of galaxy under Imperial control and even if those sectors are not united they still have vast resources and troops at their disposal.
    The Imperial Fleet at Endor was not destroyed either, although it suffered heavy losses.

    You need not look further than our own Earth history to see that even planetary empires take quite a while to fall. When dealing with particularly large and powerful empires, there is often no simple point of fall like a single battle or war. It is a period of long decline and fragmentation and slow disassembling of the given empire until it disappears, over a period that can even span decades or a century.

    Now, assuming that ST takes place 30 - 40 years after ROTJ we are left with quite a bit of options to speculate what state the Empire is in.
    It can be severely weakened and reduced to just a few sectors.
    It can just as easily be a force to be taken seriously, holding a third or a fourth of the galaxy.
    It can be slowly on the rise again during ST.
    And of course, 30 - 40 years could be enough for total annihilation of the Empire, without a single fragment of it remaining - but to be honest I find that highly unlikely.
    Last edited by The_Hellhammer, Nov 14, 2012
  2. Bazinga'd Dark Lord of the SWC/PT/ Spinoff Forums

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    I agree. The extent that we see the Empire in the ST is solely dependant on the storyline, not on the plausibility of the existence of some remaining Empire military threat

    At Endor the Empire was decapitated in that its leadership was removed from power, i.e., the Emperor, Vadar, etc. So when we discuss the Rebel victory over the Empire, thats the context it should be viewed. It is safe to assume that the Empire still has plenty of significant military assets throughout the galaxy. By analogy, Al Qaeda lost its leader and founder in 2012, yet it still exists in fragmented form and is likely to do so for a long time. So long as there is a cause, the mere decapitation of leadership does not end a military threat.
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  3. Avnar Force Ghost

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    Love the idea! I really hope the Empire is in the new films -didn't feel like Star Wars films when it was absent from the prequels...

    Sorry about the comparison -but I think something like what happened with the germans/nazis from ww1 - ww2 might work? (Got defeated-came back meaner/stronger)
  4. Avnar Force Ghost

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    "Another justs pops up in their place"
  5. The Hellhammer Grand Judicator of the New Film Territories

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    The comparison had occured to me, but I don't think it really reflects the Rebellion vs. Empire situation.
    Germans were outnumbered, outmanned and with dwindling resources and in the end forced to disarm.
    In this situation, it is actually the Rebels who are outgunned and outclassed in almost every aspect. The Battle of Endor was a daring all-or-nothing gamble to take out the Empire's leadership - and it worked. Beyond Endor, the Empire still has far larger resources and military advantages.
    The german defeats in World Wars were far more compherensive and well...more complete.
  6. Bazinga'd Dark Lord of the SWC/PT/ Spinoff Forums

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    Decapitated military organizations dont normally reform like Germany did, they decentralize and fight an insurgency. I think that is what the New Republic faces in the immediate aftermath of Endor.
  7. AdmiralSteven Jedi Grand Master

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    I never thought the Empire just gave up after its leadership was taken out and would hope that the new movies reflect this. I would love to see more struggle for the rebellion.
  8. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

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    I'd prefer a new threat for the Sequel trilogy, but I'd like remnants of the Empire to still exist in some form.

    Systems or worlds that remain loyal to the Empire - even worlds divided by the side they choose - that the Alliance have to deal with.

    Wandering Imperial warlords and terrorist threats.

    Just nothing on the scale of the OT and not a primary villain.

    The heroes have to deal with it in some way in the process of the new adventure and it is dealt with in more detail in the inevitable spin offs on TV.
  9. Darth Shibs Jedi Master

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    Agreed. We've had presidents assassinated in the past too and we didn't just fall apart...
  10. lord_eidolon Force Ghost

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    That's true, but our presidents weren't Dark Lords of the Sith who lived an unnaturally long life and ruled through tyranny and oppression.
  11. lord_eidolon Force Ghost

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    There could always be a 6-season TV series taking place between episodes 6 and 7 called, "The Imperial Remnant Wars", or something...
    Last edited by lord_eidolon, Nov 14, 2012
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  12. Dranem Jedi Grand Master

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    Oct 31, 2012
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    I would love to see the Empire return in some form. I think its the most logical enemy as Star Wars has always been an ideological battle of sorts between dictatorships and democracy, both of which are represented by the Jedi/Rebels and Empire Respectively. I like the idea of the Rebel Alliance being a new form of government fighting for control with the Jedi as an important aspect of it. That would open up lots of neat story ideas that don't even necessarily have to involve the Sith as the main players, though I have no problem with that either.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is "I will watch any new Star Wars movie".
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  13. Darth Shibs Jedi Master

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    Are you sure they weren't Sith? lol
    Last edited by Darth Shibs, Nov 14, 2012
  14. Darth Myon Jedi Knight

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    The Empire is a must in ep. 7. You just don't destroy 1000 Star Destroyers with 10-20 meager rebel ships.
  15. fishtailsam Force Ghost

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    Well if you go by the SE ending of ROTJ, it appears that all the major systems are bucking the Empire. Regardless of whether "instant freedom" happens, or a "cleanup war" happens, I think that 30-40 years after ROTJ, the galaxy shoul be at peace.
  16. The Hellhammer Grand Judicator of the New Film Territories

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    I always considered those celebration clips we saw in SE as something the Empire eventually put down with brutal reprisals and an even harder military crackdown than before.
    It wouldn't be the first premature "Liberation celebration" to go awry heh.

    30-40 years after ROTJ the galaxy may well be at peace, as you say, but that does not necessarily mean that the Empire no longer exists.
    It could still maintain it's hold on a considerable chunk of the galaxy while being at peace with the New Republic (or it's equivalent).
    A sort of Cold War relationship between the two might be quite an interesting approach as well.
  17. Bazinga'd Dark Lord of the SWC/PT/ Spinoff Forums

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    Over the course of the last two administrations I have heard numberous references to "Lord Bush" and "Darth Obama." [face_laugh]
  18. lord_eidolon Force Ghost

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    Let's just hope Obama doesn't "dissolve" the Senate. That would just be messy.
  19. fenton Force Ghost

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    LIke with the Jedi, there are lots of diferent ways to go.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see the ST involve the Rebels/Republic finally taking Coursant (maybe even start it in a similiar place as RotS........)

    But at the sametime Star Wars is a fairy tale, and you can have the Empire fall apart that quickly because.......its a fairy tale.
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  20. LANDO_ROCKS Force Ghost

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    I've said this before but it's pertinent here -

    PT - Good guys in government - bad guys in the shadows trying to overthrow the good guys
    OT - Bad guys in government - good guys hiding out trying to overthrow the bad guys
    ST - my guess is that there is no dominant government - good guys control some systems, bad guys control some systems and Hutts and other non-aligned parties control the outer rim

    The easiest connection to bring to the OT is the Stormtroopers being the bad guys, they are iconic. You can have Ep7 with sides nervously keeping a relative peace, it's been 30 years since ROTJ and it seems that just when everyone thinks the status quo will remain the Empire is rising again, with the help of a fallen Jedi....
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  21. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

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    Alright, taking out the whole EU, there were only like 40 Star Destroyers at Endor.
  22. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

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    On seeing the Executor in episode VII - "There are a lot of command ships."

    The 40 Star Destroyers at Endor must be only a small slice of the total fleet the Empire can wield if there are 'A lot of Command Ships' eh?

    The Clone Wars and Galactic Civil War are fundamentally different conflicts with very different endgames. In the Clone Wars its like individual personalities have far greater impact then territories and planets. I guess in part this is because the Seperatists and Republic have a seemingly infinite number of soldiers that most in the galaxy don't view as sapients (Droids and Clones). It's more important to capture or kill Grievous then destroy a fleet of ships.

    The reverse is true for the Galactic Civil War... There clearly must be someone in line to take control, or perhaps several (hence why the EU has the Empire fragment). The Rebellion has to move from being a rebel organization to a government while securing territories from the Empire. This would be a long process and one of the reasons I can accept the whole twenty years of mop up action in the EU. The Remnant as a separate nation could be an interesting group to see though, especially if they became more of a benevolent empire.
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  23. black_saber Force Ghost

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    Wrong there was suppose to be 300 star destroyers and the battle of Endor and prince Xizor ordered it, even thou he died before the battle of endor happened!
  24. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

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    Movie canon reigns supreme. count the screenshots. total about 40.

    Already had a massive discussion about this HERE
    Last edited by Darth_Kiryan, Nov 14, 2012
  25. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    What you are suggesting in the first paragraph is far too depressing for GL.