Gallifrey Outpost: New Dr Who Discussion

JediMasterGuff Thank you for holding back on your thoughts for the moment as I intend to wait till the second episode and watch them both in one hit!

So I ask that others who wish to share their thoughts, ie. any spoiler no matter how insignificant, please cover them with highlighted text.

 

Actually, reading the summary of the episode on Wikipedia, I have to admit that I'm intrigued enough about the episode to give it the benefit of the doubt, especially since it appears a lot of the questions that have been asked over the past five years are about to be answered. And I have to admit that the return of the Master and the explanation for Donna's reappearance were logical and well thought out, and not the trainwreck I expected them to be. The return of the Time Lords and Gallifrey...well, I'll wait till next week, but I'll assume it's part of the plan to give Steven and Matt and clean slate to work with. Not too sure about them being glad about the Master bringing about the End of Time, but as I said, next week, to borrow a quote from another TV show, all will be revealed.

 

I literally swore out loud at the end. As in "What the ****ing ****?" And for someone who is a church-goer like me, that means the ending (the very end) was a shock. The whole Master template healing the world into clones of himself I saw coming once I knew what the "immortality gate" was intended to do just because of The Empty Child and The Doctor Dances. I thought that JOhn Simms was very effectively creepy as a complete lunatic rather than a mere psychopath or sociopath. And then, of course, I had written a story about Wilf keeping up with the Doctor at times such as when he wants to let him know that Donna's getting married. Except who else thinks that she or Sean Temple is going to pop their clogs just because it's Doctor Who?

 

I really enjoyed the episode as a whole, the ending was a bit over the top for my taste, but we shall see. Really looking forward seeing what they are going to do with Timothy Dalton.

 

The clip from episode 2 makes it look like Dalton is the Master. . But does that make any sense at all?

 

Ok,

1. Not keen on the Ood, obviously one of Russell's favourites though. Brian Cox's voice is excellent though, always gives the gravitas to whatever he does.

2. We never see what the Dr does to good Queen Bess but we finally have confirmation that he married Alex Kingston's character from the Library episode.

3. Tim Dalton is EXCELLENT, for such a small role he really does it brilliantly, can't wait to see more of him at New Year.

4. Like the idea that the Master's wife has been plotting to destroy him all this time, you think she's a helpless victim but then she shows her steel. Hope she survived the fire.

5. Wilfred is great. He never killed a man, stating that the war was over by the time he was a paratrooper and presumably joining the Maroon machine at a time that avoided the various post-colonial conflicts (Malaya, Borneo, Aden etc). Wonderful that 40 years after appearing in The Dalek Invasion of Earth he's still starring in the show.

6. Not keen on the whole ravenous Master thing, seems to have been inspired by the Angel ep The Price. Pretty disgusting and I'm not sure I want implied cannabilism on Christmas Day.

7. Love the scene where the Master and Dr face off, it's almost as though the Master wants the Dr to help him but just can't bring himself to admit it. Great expression from the Dr when he realises that the drums in the Master's head are real and that he wasn't just mad (at least not totally) all along.

So what is the significance of The Drums? My theory is that actually the Master was the Time Lords instrument all along, that whilst they had the Dr do their dirty work they had the Master do their REALLY dirty work. And now he's their version of the Genisis ark, the Time Lords have preserved their essences (just as the Dr did in Family of Blood) and now the Master has transformed humanity into a planet full of Timelord bodies, just waiting for their consciousnesses to be implanted into them.

 

So I had intended to hold off on watching part one of The End of Time, but my Will power wasn't strong enough...

Saturn 5 instead of quoting I will just reference your numbers:

1. I like the Ood and agree that Brian Cox's voice was perfect for the Elder
2. Actually I think you will find he is suggesting that he married 'Queen Bess' and when he says 'Her nickname is no longer...' he is referring to her nickname being 'The Virgin Queen'
3. Agreed!
6. Hadn't really considered the whole 'implied cannibalism' thing. I had just assumed The Master was using his new powers.
7. The scenes with Tennant and Simm face-to-face are superb!

Also, the two different cliff-hangers are bonkers!

 

Um, on #2, that doesn't explain Silence in the Library. It explains why Elizabeth I tried to have the Doctor beheaded in The Shakespeare Code.

 

The Doctor is Brave, Honest, True and Resourceful--an excellent front-line leader.
The Master is greedy, cowardly, and only interested in saving himself and power--what better way to ensure the survival of you race than to plant the core of them in him?

In the original series, The Master frequently asked the Doctor for help, especially once his plan was fubar-ed. "HaHa! I'm going to rule the world!" "What about the ___ effect?" "Oh crap. Help?" That was about 1/3 of his stories with the 3rd Doctor.

 

Well, that's over with.

It's a shame the Timelords only return for about five minutes, while the overblown fare-thee-well ending drags out for ten to fifteen.

 

Re-watching some of that finale, I'm really warming to it. Simm makes such a great Master. And Tennant was a brilliant Doctor...

But here's the trailer the BBC just released for the next series!

 

So let's see. The finale had:

-A jazzy alien space bar
-A rip-roaring WWII-style spaceship gun turret battle
-The nominal villain turning around and sacrificing himself to stop the major villain

Nothing in there for people who post on a site like this to enjoy...

I'm cautiously open to #11. I have to keep reminding myself that it took an episode or two to really warm up to Tennant (I REALLY liked Eccleston).

Well, allons-y! Or should I say, Geronimo!

 

Just watched both all at once. They weren't my favorite episodes ever, but a decent send off. Until I came on here I was wondering who the President was and where I'd seen him before, but I liked Tim Dalton's role as well. The Master wasn't as threatening as he was previously.

And a gun totting American, the reluctance to use weapons sometimes comes across as a cultural oddity. I had been expecting more of the fundamentals to change with the introduction of the Time Lords, but they sort of showed up for the 5 minutes and then they were gone with no lasting impact. Him saying goodbye did go on a little long, but I suppose it is better than going in a flash. It was a little unclear what happened to the Master, when the link was broken did he die or what? I did like the explanation of the Time Lord's backstory. As for the Matt Smith, we'll just have to see what happens.

 

Ok,
1. Well I called it right, the drums were programmed into the Master by the Timelords, he was their sleeper agent all along
2. I think the whole diamond thing is pretty stupid. Also the Dr's ability to jump out of a speeding spaceship without a parachute and survive is a little hard to take. Couldn't he have used the sonic screwdriver to alter his personal gravity or something. When Gallifrey appears above the earth where has the moon gone? Also if Gallifrey is so huge when compared to the Earth shouldn't all Timelords be very squat and strong to endure it's gravity?
3. Nice touch that Wilfred recalls serving in Palestine campaign with the Parachute Regiment just as Bernard Cribbins really did. I wonder if he knew comedian Frank Carson who also served there with the Paras?
4. So who is the woman who keeps appearing to Wilfred? The Dr's mum? Sister? Wife? Daughter? Susan? Romana? ("I was lost, so very long ago") Leela's descendent? The Rani? Jenny? Donna? Only time will tell (doesn't it always?). So there are factions within the Timelords and they're not all trapped, not entirely. Who is the other Timelady who voted against Rassilon's plan? "Like the weeping Angels of old" Hmmm?
5. So Rassillon, the Timelords obviously brought back their big guns for the time war. Great performance from Tim Dalton, hope we see him again. Note the Timelords are attempting to become non-corporeal, just as Omega did (he was my second guess for the President). Love the way the Master threatens him and Rassilon just undoes him with a single gesture, like a father with a naughty child.
6. Nice touch with Donna, not so much the lottery ticket as the fact that he borrowed £1 from her dead father to buy it for her. The whole 'visit old friends' routine seemed a bit self indulgent. Can't believe Martha settled for Mickey although the beard suits him. Nice scene with Jack (very Star Wars cantina) although you wonder if a new boyfriend will be enough to heal his sadness over his grandson? Bit of a stretch that Rose forgets the stranger she met one Christmas but I'll buy it. You rather wonder about him going to visit John Smith's beloved Matron's grandaughter rather than the lady herself?
7. I clearly remember the Dr carrying various currency in Battlefield. He's also used guns before in Attack of the Cybermen and Ressurection of the Daleks to name but two. The Visionary rather reminds me of the Baseship's Hybrid from Battlestar Galactica. How interesting that the Timelords have their own version of Dalek Khan. The scene where Wilfred and the Cactus man the guns to shoot down the missiles remind anyone else of the Millenium Falcon escaping the Death Star's fighters?

8. 'You could be beautiful. We could travel together' lines to make the slashficcers weep with joy. Not to mention Jack's "Going my way?"
9. Horrifying idea that the Timelords who we've always regarded as essentially benevolent could have been so warped by the endless war that they were prepared to sacrifice the physical universe to preserve life as non-corporeal intelligences. Just like Davros and his Daleks they were prepared to sacrifice everything but at least there'd be something worthwhile remaining afterwards. I always wondered what Davros and the boys would do after there was no one else left to exterminate?
10. June Whitfield is great, she and Bernard Cribbins cannot fail to raise a smile from you every time. We had such a good goodbye for Rose and Jackie that it seems a shame to keep bringing them back again and again, it's like the many deaths of Darla.
11. So, the 11th Doctor. Remind anyone else of a cross between Boris Johnson and Jerome 'Soldier, Soldier' Flynn?

 

Self-indulgent is exactly what it was. That's his "reward": the chance to see all the people who meant the most to him one last time before he changes.

-Martha and Mickey (Jones and Smith, again!) - at first I cringed at the simplicity of marrying the black characters, though we've never even seen them interact. But then I realized how alike they are; Mickey's unrequited love for Rose parallels Martha's for the Doctor; they're kindred spirits.

-Joan didn't want the Doctor; she wanted just John Smith. Visiting the great-granddaughter allowed him to catch up, without disrespecting Joan's wishes.

 

I loved it. I'm hoping the time woman is Dona. The last episode had a bit of a star wars feel and the end parts of it where the doctor goes and visits all of his friends reminded me of lord of the rings.

 

I was pretty disappointed with how the Time Lords were used, I expected more to come from that, otherwise I think it was a good enough ending for an era in Doctor Who.

 

Yeah, you're right but maybe we'll see more of them

 

According to Julie Gardner, it's the Doctor's mother. Of course, the eighth Doctor said he had a human mother, and Donna is now a part-Time Lord human...

Wouldn't THAT be a neat continuity fix?

 

a very over-indulgent and unsatisfying end. Glad RTD is leaving--he was obviously burnt out. Of the 5 "specials", I only liked 2 of them, which is a pretty poor showing compared to seasons 1-3. Burnout was beginning to show in series 4, and is full-blown here.

One scene shamelessly reminiscent of Star Wars. Logical for the characters, but not so much for the script.

Yes, very over-indulgent ending. The Doctor has never had hours to regenerate before. more like minutes. tops. and that was the 3rd to 4th.

As for this version of the Timelords... Horriblly disappointing. And illogical. Just very, very poorly thought out. Worse than an episode of DS9. Don't want to see this version of the Timelords brought back again ever. better to have the series end than to have it continue like this.
Timothy Dalton would have been much better as a Master than as President. The glove of deus-ex-machina was pretty lame.

I was wondering if the woman in white might have been the White Guardian.

Overall, very disappointing. Not something I would bother watching again.

 

Anyone else besides me want Ace to come back and start doing this?

 

Yeah. Or her daughter!
Sophie Aldred's child is old enough to start playing teenagers.

 

What.

Is that what the show really used to be? That was like an 80s VHS infomercial...

 

that episode was filmed in 1987(?), but was set in 1963, right after the Tardis left earth with the first Doctor, his grand-daughter, and 2 od her teachers. It was interesting as a tribute to that era, and a reminder that the "good old days" weren't all good.

Plus the quality of that video upload was pretty crappy.

And, as a reminder to Russle T Davies, that was the actual first episode with a dalek flying to avoid stairs.