Amph Game Of Thrones (NO SPOILERS for unaired episodes!!)

Discussion in 'Community' started by VadersLaMent, Apr 17, 2011.

  1. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Aerys killed Rickard and Brandon Stark and demanded Jon Arryn send him the heads of Ned and Robert. He forced Arryn's hand.
  2. Havac Former Moderator

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    I think you're allowing the fact that Tywin is ordering things done rather than doing them himself to obscure just how "needlessly cruel" he actually is. Sure, he doesn't go around torturing, raping, and murdering for the fun of it -- he just deliberately employs the biggest collection in Westeros of lords, knights, and soldiers who torture, rape, and murder for the fun of it because he thinks they're effective that way, and orders them to go around torturing, raping, and murdering for the fun of it because he thinks it's good policy.

    Tywin is definitely a cruel man. It's just that, except in the case of his children, he inflicts his cruelty through pawns.
  3. BootlegVader Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2004
    star 4
    Rhaegar wasn't King so he cannot just reinstate the Lord's Right, because a prince doesn't outrank the decree of a king. Next, while Brandon might have broken the law neither Rickard, Ned, or Robert had thus Aerys II has no right to kill or order them killed because he is paranoid.

    Moreover, Dragonstone is lonely and unhospitable castle without any other young people of course Shireen seems lonely as she doesn't have any siblings to play with nor are there a ton of servants to serve her like Tommen or Sweet-Robin.
    Last edited by BootlegVader, May 6, 2013
  4. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Oh he's cruel, but except one instance (with Tyrion and Tysha) he's not needlessly cruel, he doing it to achieve political power or put down a rebellion. Honestly, it's what people in this world always used to do.. and in some places, still do (see Gadhafi and Assad). It's just what I think of as usual, conventional evil. It's those sadistic characters in the show, like Joffrey and now Theon's captor and Littlefinger, that I think go beyond "usual evil" into something worse. While Tywin is only as evil as someone like Assad or Stalin.
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, May 6, 2013
  5. BootlegVader Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2004
    star 4
    What has Littlefinger done that matches up to everything Tywin has done so far?
  6. Coruscant Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2004
    star 6
    If you think the evil of a Joffrey or a "Theon's captor" is worse than the calculated, deliberate evil of a Tywin Lannister, I'm very sorry for you.
    GrandAdmiralJello likes this.
  7. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    What he did to the Reynes wasn't "conventional." That's why there's a song.
  8. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    What we're saying about Shireen has nothing to do with how many friends she has to play with. It's the fact that she's locked away in one tiny corner of one room, and it takes formal negotiations just to let her see another human being.
    Last edited by Jabba-wocky, May 6, 2013
  9. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    What he let happen to Ros, instead of simply killing her, goes beyond usual evil. Other than that, he's been as politically ruthless as Tywin, he just doesn't have the same power yet... but he's "climbing."

    Serial killers/torturers are a step above evil dictators on the ladder of evil.

    I said it's conventional evil, it's usual evil. The TV show goes into what may be called the unusually evil.
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, May 6, 2013
  10. BootlegVader Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2004
    star 4
    We have no proof that she is locked up into one room nor that it formal negotiations just to let her see another human being. For the latter, it seems more likely that Stannis and Selyse have an extremely distant and awkward relationship so that they overly formal to each other.
  11. BootlegVader Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2004
    star 4
    Tywin had a prostitute brutally gang raped because she dare marry Tyrion, that seems much more inhuman then just having someone killed.
    Last edited by BootlegVader, May 6, 2013
    Darth_Invidious likes this.
  12. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Okay, well I was sort of following you before, but now even I am confused.

    Littlefinger is evil because, although he might not do personally commit terrible acts like sexually assaulting, killing, and mutilating someone, he empowers someone else to do it for him.

    Whereas Tywin Lannister is not as evil because rather than personally commit terrible acts like sexually assaulting, killing, and mutilating someone, he empowers Gregor Clegane to do it for him.

    . . .Wait. What?
  13. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Like I said, that's the one thing that Tywin has done that was just plain cruel and sadistic. So I guess him and Littlefinger are tied. But Tywin is old, I think it's only a matter of time before him and Joffrey die. Joffrey is stupid, and Tywin's death would create a power vacuum and even more chaos.

    EDIT: Also, Tywin just wants the people dead that he wants dead, while Littlefinger obviously wanted Ros to have a tortured death.
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, May 6, 2013
  14. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Not that I disagree entirely with the sentiment, but the evil of Joffrey and Theon's torturers is pretty deliberate, too. You can be a sociopath without necessarily breaking any laws or doing anything awful. They just aren't.
  15. BootlegVader Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2004
    star 4
    I would argue that Tywin having people brutally raped also counts as torture.
    Last edited by BootlegVader, May 6, 2013
  16. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2004
    star 6
    Pretty sure he just wanted to strengthen his relationship with Joffrey. He didn't want it but he didn't care either.
  17. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Yes. There's another backstory bit about it -- another lord grew somewhat disobedient, so Tywin had a musician sent over to the lord's court to play the Rains of Castamere to them. That sorted that lord out immediately. That's because the utter extermination of a house -- root and stem -- is NOT conventional. Not in a feudal society. Conventional is to remove a rebellious vassal and put their heir in charge -- or at most severe, strip them of their lands and exile them.
  18. BootlegVader Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2004
    star 4
    I have been just thinking about this latest episode some more, and I wondering am I the only one who thought that the QOT and Tywin's dialogue was terrible. In particular, how Tywin thinks he can just boss around the Tyrells without any worry seeing how last episode directly mentioned how much the Lannisters were needing the Tyrell's money, armies, and food to survive.

    Seriously, I was expecting the QOT to tell Tywin to stuff it when he started threatening making Loras a member of the Kingsguard by mentioning how Loras would have to first accept and how that might alienate the Tyrell's from continuing to support the Lannister cause.

    Also all the gay jokes were pretty old and lame.
  19. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Of course it does...

    I'm not sure what you're responding to there.
  20. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2004
    star 6
    'Littlefinger wanted Ros to have a tortured death'. I really doubt he cared at all, just that Varys lost his asset and Joffrey liked him more.
  21. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Probably more like "Your Grace, I just discovered that Ros is a spy for Varys. Do with her what you will."
  22. MistrX Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    I believe it was a combination of both. It was Lyanna's capture that sparked everything and drove Robert to want to take up arms. What happened to Rickard and Brandon was the major justification.

    Littlefinger did not just "have someone killed". He gave her up knowing that Joffrey was going to torture and kill her. That it was not going to be a quick death. And furthermore, we know he's done this at least one other time. I would imagine brutally gang raped and brutally tortured and killed aren't that far apart on the Evil Acts Scale.
  23. Ulicus Lit'ari

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 6
    The Kingsguard thing was an especially empty threat, given we know he fully intends for his eldest son to inherit Casterly Rock, in complete disregard for Jaime's vows. My memory of the books is very foggy, and I can't remember if this scene was in them, but I was half expecting the QoT to say, "Oh. So the dwarf is your heir, now?" and for the back and forth to continue.
    Last edited by Ulicus, May 7, 2013
  24. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Loving the portrayal of Theon's torturer at this point. That actor went from seeming to have such compassion to pure evil so fast. Brilliant stuff.

    And yeah, no more Ros.
  25. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    That was a good episode, but it makes me realize that Joffrey is still alive and well. I are disappoint.