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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph Game Of Thrones (uh i guess it's done now? Edit: No!)

Discussion in 'Community' started by VadersLaMent, Apr 17, 2011.

  1. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001

    I know.
     
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  2. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002


    This preview removes Margaery as a suspect, I think. And isn't it cool when Dany invades cities?
     
  3. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Littlefinger: Trust me, Sansa...
    Dontos: What about my money?
    Littlefinger shoots Dontos with a few arrows.
    Littlefinger: The world is full of liars. Now, what was I saying? Oh yes, Sansa, you're safe now, trust me...
    (Btw, are they directing him to have that over-the-top sinister voice? He's a bad guy, we get it... To use a Jungle Book analogy, Sansa is Mowgli, Tywin is Shere Khan, Littlefinger is Kaa :p )

    If Sansa reaches the Eyrie with him, I hope she and Arya open the trapdoor under the floor on this creep. Seems like he helped kill Joffrey, but still.

    I hope Sansa and Arya get to reunite, anyway, but tragedy seems to follow Arya wherever she goes. She seems to somewhat respect the Hound now, but he's still not a nice person. She might ditch him soon, though take him off her hit list.

    Tywin is certainly happy about grooming Tommen as his successor, and he was brilliant at manipulating Oberyn too but I wonder if he sees through it. And at least he's finally acknowledging Daenerys and her dragons as a threat, and mentioning the Greyjoy's and Wildlings too.

    That Jaime/Cersei scene was disturbing.

    Daenerys is ready to take another city... but what will make this one different? She's had a lot of good luck for a while now.

    Don't know where the story at the Wall is going. And wasn't Stannis supposed to be going there to help? And now Bolton's men are heading there too.
     
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  4. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    Ahh, so Baelish was indeed ready to make his greater move. Well I wondered if he was, so I feel like I should get at least some points :p I thought it was possible that if he did have that plan in motion that he would have been involved in the poisoning as well. Setting it up in such a way that he can frame Tyrion could help him by making the Lannisters crumble from within. Guess he was satisfied that with the war over, this was the most opportune time to strike. So Sansa will indeed be in the Eyrie, and we'll see if Arya makes it there. Definitely thought we'd eventually be getting some more of Baelish's machinations (and creepily hitting on Sansa... *shudder*), but this is sooner than I thought. I figured if he was part of the conspiracy we might not find out until later, but it's kind of nice for them to make it clear the "whodunit" isn't the focus of this storyline. (Though we still don't actually know how the poisoning was accomplished and who exactly placed it where; guessing that might come up in the trial).

    It seems like the Tyrells were indeed not involved as they would have preferred for power's sake that Margaery have a kid first (not to mention the fact that, as previously stated, it seemed too obvious). Though I appreciate that as shrewd as Olena is, she is somewhat relieved her granddaughter doesn't have to sleep with and live with Joffrey. She's still the best.

    Oberon could still have been involved. He's very hard to read. I am inclined to think he wasn't as I think his own aims are more personally directed at The Mountain and Tywin. But killing Joffrey could be part of wreaking a systematic revenge on the Lannisters. Very interested to see where that goes. Tywin trying to enlist his services against Dany, though? I feel like, considering her brother and his sister were married and were both murdered by the Lannisters... that they might see themselves as semi-family in law and both have motive to unite against Tywin instead. At least that's what I would do if I were Oberon the minute Dany and her dragons show up.

    I'm genuinely surprised Brienne was not involved, though (unless she was and we just haven't seen it yet). And a little disappointed not to see her in this episode. I would at least like to know what she feels about Sansa escaping from the city, since she had vowed to get her out. Without that mission, what will Brienne even aim to do?

    The Jaime/Cersei scene... yikes. Well, that's one way to remind us that, for all his roguish charm and season 3 adventures with Brienne, when Jaime is around his family, he can be a pretty horrible person. I was reminded very sharply that this is the guy who threw Bran out a window, after all. It's sad to see him regress that way, really. I suspect Tyrion's trial will test whether he's actually changed at all.

    Finally, I like that Tyrion mentioned the possibility that Tywin could have been involved because he much prefers Tommen as king to Joffrey. And the scene with Tommen and Tywin was definitely my favorite in the show. I think this is a possibility and avenue the show will explore and some of the characters will entertain. In the end, though, while Tywin might see this as a fortuitous turn of events, I still don't think he'd be directly involved in it. It's only possible if he sees killing Joffrey as being a kind of destroying a family member to save the family legacy. But as I mentioned before, I don't think he is involved in the murder because we've just been shown that he had many opportunities to take out members of his own family who could cause them great harm (like Tyrion) and he didn't.

    All in all, a pretty good episode. Felt a little like intermediate preamble to coming stories after the tense brilliance of the previous episode. But still pretty decent. Poor Tyrion. Poor Pod. I don't have a great feeling about all this.
     
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  5. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Well, I wanted to say I disagreed here. Certainly, it may have been the writers' intention. Until now, however, Jamie has done exceptionally cruel things to those he doesn't care about, and been very humane to those he does. That's how his character works, and it perfectly explains what he did to Bran. In raping Cersei, his sister and lover, they've clearly broken this pattern. He's not just as bad as he was before: he's worse.

    That's probably why it was a consensual encounter in the books instead of anything like this. I'm personally pretty confused by the whole thing, as they could've reminded us of Jamie's short-comings in other ways that don't seem to do so much violence to his character.
     
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  6. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    Having not read this book yet, I guess I assumed they were trying to perhaps externalize some of his distress at Cersei basically ending things with him, something I suspect we'd understand better from his POV.

    Still, I agree that it takes things in a really different direction. Because I can deal with someone backsliding, but as you said, it seems like he's even worse. And as much as I like rooting for grey characters, when you've freaking raped someone, that makes it very hard to root for you at all.
     
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  7. Mustafar_66

    Mustafar_66 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 20, 2005
    I think the best we can hope for is that scene was just badly directed. In the books, Cersei starts off protesting only to then encourage Jaime. There's hints of that in the show version, but it's so badly handled it just comes across as rape.
     
  8. Mar17swgirl

    Mar17swgirl Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2000
    Well, IIRC In the book Cersei only protested because it was her time of the month, but then consented.
     
  9. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    There's an interview with the director that suggests that's entirely the way they intended to go -- Cersei's refusals being half-hearted and then she gets into it later. But that's not how a single person seems to have interpreted the scene so I don't know how they messed up so badly. I mean, you'd think they'd kinda want to make it clear that it wasn't rape.


    And yeah I did actually like the Tywin scene. I was annoyed with this ep because of the Jaime scene and more time wasting with pointless hooker interludes (come on guys, we're four seasons in, cut it out!) but Tywin with Tommen was a great intro to the latter and a good scene for Tywin's pov.


    Other good scenes include: Shireen and Davos (as always), Dany and her badass Valyrian taunting, and Arya/the Hound. Was really relieved that Arya gave the Hound crap for his behavior. I don't think much of Arya, but if she had violated guest right just after what happened to her family, I'd have been done with her forever. The Hound is broken beyond redemption IMO but good to know Arya still has some decency in her.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
  10. TiniTinyTony

    TiniTinyTony JCC Super Bowl Pick 'Em Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2003
    "Would you like to sit?"
     
  11. Miana Kenobi

    Miana Kenobi Admin Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2000
    All of Cersei's protests in the book are about getting caught, not doing it right there, etc. I am still enraged that they decided instead to just make it downright rape.
     
  12. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    So, they spent the better part of a season laboriously going about starting to rehabilitate Jaime, and then throw it all away? The show has become consistent to the point of predictability, making it boring at the level of, say, mid series Lost. Admittedly, I never would have guessed open casket church sister rape in particular, but in general: same old same old.
     
  13. OdRevus

    OdRevus Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    May 16, 2008
    My inner Tywin fanboy loved this episode.
    My inner Jaime fanboy is facepalming.
    The mystery of Joffrey's assassination was only partially unravelled. Some very key pieces are still missing.
    Ultimately though, just another build up episode.
     
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  14. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Dany's conqeror music is awesome. That's twice we got that. I don't know what the instrument is that makes that sound, a horn of some sort, but it reminds me of the Minoton music from Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger. And that was a hell of an ending.

    The conversation between Margaery and her mother was interesting. Margaery seems like she didn't know a thing was about to happen but Olenna says they are in a better place and the third go around will be better. I'm reading here that Olenna has killed off a previous husband, and now Joffrey. And Littlefinger? Him too. Olenna and Littefinger killed off Joffrey.

    Littlefinger also just did to Sansa what he did to Ned. "Trust me, everyone is lying".

    Oberyn? I don't think for a minute he was in on it. Oberyn has that "I made this character to be killed" vibe. I am not sure what will happen here.

    I don't know what the new King's name is offhand, but the entire scene with Tywin pulling a Don King and leaving the loser there while he takes away the winner was classic.

    Lol @ Jorah in the friend zone.

    I just became a Daario fan.

    I thought perhaps they were going for a half hearted "no" from Cersei, but watching the whole moment it did not seem that way. I see Jello's post about the director saying they were going for her actually consenting but it did not come across that way at all. So I don't know how this is supposed to be taken. Are we now to consider Jaime a rapist or are we not because the director said that was not what was happening?
     
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  15. Darth Morella

    Darth Morella Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2004
    I thought Cersei's protests concerned having sex in the presence of a dead body, rather than flat out refusal. And then when she said "this isn't right" I was more focused on the fact that their whole relationship had never been right to begin with, so having a dead person in the same room wouldn't make much difference. So the question of whether she was being raped or not didn't quite cross my mind. Now that you guys mention it, maybe I should rewatch the scene to see what I missed the first time.
     
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  16. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    I did just read a summary and the director flat out says it's not suppsoed to be a "no means no" moment but here apepared to sort of make it ambiguous on purpose.

    -----So is it rape?

    “Yes, and no,” says Coster-Waldau. “There are moments where she gives in, and moments where she pushes him away. But it’s not pretty.”

    He adds, “It’s going to be interesting what people think about it.”-----
    HERE
     
  17. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999


    So far, the opinion seems to be fairly unanimous.
     
  18. epic

    epic Ex Mod star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 1999
    Yeah this is basically what I thought too. I'm surprised everyone has been focusing on that one scene tbh.
     
  19. s65horsey

    s65horsey Otter-loving Former EUC Mod star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2006
    That would make sense except for the scene when Jaime was getting his new hand and he tried to kiss her and she said no and pushed away his other advances. The fact that she already told him before she didn't want to do this and then he forces himself on her...yeah...no good.
     
  20. SithSense

    SithSense Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2002
    yeah...whatever you may think about jaime and cersei and all their crazy antics prior to this season, i'm pretty sure most women (even women as horrible as cersei) wouldn't be wanting to jump in the sack within hours of watching their son dying rather gruesomely, presumably at the hands of the other brother. just a hunch.



    speaking of relationships and the other brother....did anyone else feel rather dead inside when tyrion sent shae into exile?
     
  21. TiniTinyTony

    TiniTinyTony JCC Super Bowl Pick 'Em Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2003
    Jaime is a horrible person. Remember the guy that threw Bran out the window in the first episode? So I guess I don't understand why people are so shocked/surprised at his actions. The messed up thing is that his actions were probably premeditated when he asked everyone to leave the room as he knew no one would enter and disturb them. Personally I question the sound-proof-ness of the rooms in particular scenes. Any reason why anyone would make the spot where you display a dead body sound proof? Last time I checked dead bodies don't make any sounds. :p
     
  22. yankee8255

    yankee8255 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 31, 2005
    I think anyone who saw the Jamie-Cersei scene as it appeared on screen (including the rather ominous music) and thinks it was debatable whether it was rape is from the Bill Clinton "It depends on what your definition of 'is' is" School of Semantics..
     
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  23. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Because it's completely out of character. Forgetting the books for a moment and just looking at the show, we have two seasons of character development between Jamie throwing Bran out the window and this rape scene. It's well established that Jamie treats those he cares about well. He cares about Cersei (she was his love) and he threw Bran out the window because Bran seeing that would have gotten both of them in a lot of trouble. He cares about Tyrion and it's established that he's always treated Tyrion better than Tywin has. And as he started caring about Brienne he started treating her well also.

    And then we have this out of nowhere rape of Cersie. Completely out of character. Definitely not in the trajectory his character arc was going.
     
  24. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    It just shows that Jaime doesn't have the best judgment as far as Cersei is concerned.
     
  25. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    OK in reading this thread, it's clear that solojones has paid the most attention to characters based on personality and not as names for faces inbetween sex/violence shots.

    Respect, sj. Respect.