[Game] THE GREAT DEBATE

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Souderwan, Jun 30, 2007.

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  1. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    The rules say nothing about Mr. Modertor calling the shots. He calls the score and decides who debates whom on what, and asks questions.

    As far as I can tell, he merely administers the rules, and has no power over time constraints (he can set the time, but once set, he cannot arbitrarily change it).

    EDIT: This is why Constitutional government sucks. :p
  2. Mr_Moderator Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Your concern is noted.

    Obi-Zahn Kenobi gets -2 pts for forgetting that Mr_Moderator is always right, and has the final call when it comes to decision making.

    Hammurabi receives +2 points for remembering the rules.

    Hammurabi: 40
    Obi-Zahn Kenobi: 53

    If you can coherently answer KK's question, you'll be able to receive some more points. Great work so far, from both of the debaters.
  3. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    You forget - because he is Babylonian, you owe him an additional 2 points (as per your previous statement).

    Kimball Kinnison
  4. Hammurabi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2007
    star 4
  5. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    Remembering what rules? Read the rules carefully yourself - they say nothing about Mr_Moderator having absolute power ("calling the shots").

    Anyway, give me a couple minutes. I'll scrounge up something against K_K if I can.

    Answering Kimball_Kinnison:

    Consider Brown vs. Board of Education and Plessy vs. Ferguson.

    Plessy vs. Ferguson ruled that segregated education did not violate equal protection as long as the segregated facilities were equal. Brown vs. Board of Education addressed specifically that the segregation of blacks from whites was inherently unequal and it would be impossible to have truly equal facilities for both races.

    Redrawing the lines by race would ensure that there was no de facto segregation - a predominantly white school and a predominantly black school, as this would result in inherent inequality (such as in Brown vs. Board). Government mandated de jure racism to correct de facto racism in school districting would thus be a way to maintain equality.

    Damn. I have to agree with him. Award Green Eggs and Hammurabi (I do not like him Sam-I-Ammurabbi {Shalom}) the three points.
  6. ophelia Cards Against Humanity Host. Ex-Mod

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    star 6
    Hammurabi: I don't believe you've addressed the question of whether people of different races and ethnicities would remain segregated even if funding and services were 100% equal.

    Do you think this is likely to happen, assuming that the (very) slow narrowing of the wage gap between black and white Americans continues to the point of parity? And, if voluntary segregation by residence continues, is it desirable that this condition be reflected in the public schools?

    In the initial Brown decision, Justice Warren wrote for the majority in saying that segregation in itself--entirely apart from funding disparities--had a detrimental effect on children. Do you believe this is so? If not, what effect might parallel Americas, one black, one white, have on race relations and the future of the nation as a whole?
  7. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    Historical note: according to 42 USC 2000c (b), within the frame of public education, desegregation does not include programs meant to create racial parity. It only covers programs that do not take into account race, religion, etc.

    Therefore, by definition, segregation would include programs that do take into account race, etc. As per Justice Warren, programs that take into account race (regardless of trying to achieve parity or not) therefore have detrimental effects.

    Kimball Kinnison
  8. Hammurabi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2007
    star 4
    Segregation definitely had a detrimental effect on the nation. Split Americas cannot exist - such will only lead to tumult, as they did in the 1992 Los Angeles riots and (more recently) in France.

    However, we are no longer a segregated nation. Nor are we perfectly integrated - perfection is impossible. There's only so much we can do to combat geographic segregation. Luckily, fewer and fewer people participate in 'voluntary segregation'. As blacks gain more money, they move in to richer neighborhoods, and as whites become more liberal, they become more comfortable living near blacks. Modern America is nothing like the America of before 1964 - no longer do the Klan and the lynch mob violently prevent geographic integration.

    The government does not have to actively pursue educational integration because the people of the United States are increasingly integrating themselves.
  9. Mr_Moderator Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Your objections have been considered and dismissed. Still, your posts had merit and no further points shall be detracted. It's about time to wrap things up with the Q&A session, debaters.

    As soon as its over I'll calculate the final score tally.

    KK's point is well taken, and Hammurabi does receive a bonus for successfully (and rather cleverly) arguing that he is in fact not American. +2 pts.
  10. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    Out of context.

    This power refers specifically to your decision regarding the winner, not to the rest of the debate.
  11. Hammurabi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2007
    star 4
    Well, if that's easier than responding to KK...
  12. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    Look above.
  13. ophelia Cards Against Humanity Host. Ex-Mod

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    star 6
    Hmm--not segregated by law, but by custom. Do you happen to have any statistics that show a decrease in voluntary segregation by residence? IIRC, the trend has been the opposite.

    K_K: That's one reading of the Brown I decision--not the preferred one until the decision made by the Roberts Court last week. I'm afraid I don't have time to dig up documentation before this thread closes, though. :(
  14. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    I hereby move that Obi-Zahn Kenobi lose points for failing to answer any questions placed before him during the Q&A session. Additionally, further points should be docked for continuing to undermine the authority of the moderator after the question over the rules has been settled by the moderator.

    I point the honorable Mr. Kenobi to the Senate rules, which clearly state that the moderators are the final arbiters of all rules. As Mr_Moderator is a moderator for purposes of this thread, under Senate rule C-2, final decision making relating to the interpretation of the rules falls to him.

    Kimball Kinnison
  15. Mr_Moderator Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2007
    I like your style, Obi-Zahn Kenobi. Since the game is over, you're not subject to losing any more points (as KK honorably suggested). I'll be taking a look at your objections, and as the rules state feel free to PM me with further concerns, questions, and objections.

    Of course, I remind you that your current opponent was Hammurabi, not Mr_Moderator.

    Great work on the first official contest of THE GREAT DEBATE. I'm working on those last Q&A responses right now and should have an official score pretty quick.
  16. Hammurabi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2007
    star 4
    I know it's over, but I'd still like to respond to ophelia.

    Quite frankly, housing discrimination isn't voluntary. It's subtler now than in 1940, but still existent.

    Rather than respond directly to educational segregation, it would be logical to respond to the problem at its root.
  17. Mr_Moderator Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2007
    [image=http://www.andymartinentertainments.co.uk/laser_dancing_girls350w.jpg] [image=http://www.andymartinentertainments.co.uk/laser_dancing_girls350w.jpg]

    Thanks you all for a wonderful first edition of

    THE GREAT DEBATE!!

    [image=http://www.proppersource.com/images/inventory/applause-sign1.jpg]


    You guys have really set the bar high, gentlemen!! Well done!

    Despite a stumble at the end, Obi-Zahn Kenobi managed to do a superb job throughout the debate!

    Ignoring the attempt to undermine Mr_Moderator (something that will made me lol given the whimsical powers I have with the points [face_laugh]), I?m going to grant you a solid +3 pts for finally addressing KK?s question.

    Hammurabi did a nice job addressing Ophelia?s question and gets +5 pts. That brings the final tally to

    Obi-Zahn Kenobi 56

    Hammurabi 45

    And Obi-Zahn Kenobi is our big winner!!

    [image=http://www.proppersource.com/images/inventory/applause-sign1.jpg]

    Great work, Obi-Zahn Kenobi!! Well done!!

    [image=http://www.andymartinentertainments.co.uk/laser_dancing_girls350w.jpg] [image=http://www.andymartinentertainments.co.uk/laser_dancing_girls350w.jpg]

    Credits: Special thanks to Exeter, our guest assistant Mr_Moderator
  18. Hammurabi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2007
    star 4
    Good job, Obi-Zahn.

    Personally, I'm just glad I finished better than I started. :p
  19. ophelia Cards Against Humanity Host. Ex-Mod

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    star 6
    [face_hypnotized] I am the voice of Souderwan. He wishes to congratulate both of the participants. You have done well. He is pleased. You will not be executed today.

    So swill mead and boast of your great adventures, and dream of Odin's hall, in which the victors drink with the gods, and the vanquished all rise to fight again.

    That is all.
    [face_hypnotized]
  20. Exeter Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2005
    star 4
    Congratulations, Obi-Zahn Kenobi! Nicely executed victory.

    And for what it's worth, Hammurabi, you did pretty well yourself. Excellent first round debate.

    Very entertaining. Between Hammurabi and Eggs and Babylon natives, I was laughing pretty good.
  21. Hammurabi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2007
    star 4
    And thanks, of course, to Exeter for moderating this discussion. I must admit that you made the right decision. I was more or less doomed at 8:25 (when I started writing my intro).
  22. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    lolbanned.
  23. Hammurabi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2007
    star 4
  24. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    ARRRGH!

    //PMs Ender_Sai
  25. Hammurabi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2007
    star 4
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