"Gay month" in British Primary schools

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by halibut, Jan 21, 2005.

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  1. halibut Ex-Mod

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    "FURY erupted last night over a Government-backed ?gay month? in schools.

    Under Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender History Month, funded with taxpayers? cash, kids as young as seven will be asked to chalk swearwords on the board to spark chats on homosexuality."

    Erm, is this right? Teaching kids words like "poof" and "fag" and homosexual relationships at the age of 7, before regular sex-education?

    If this goes ahead, I predict some sicknotes being written in the halibut household. (We have a 7-yr old daughter)
  2. Cobranaconda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    I think that its a good idea to explain to kids that some people aren't all straight.

    They can't grow up in the dark, can they?
  3. halibut Ex-Mod

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    I take it at the age of 16 you don't have your own children.

    As a parent, I take responsibility for teaching my children the facts of life. I don't expect them to come home saying "Our teacher taught us what a fag is".

    I'm all for kids being taught that some people prefer their own sex, but not at the age of 7. It should be included with normal sex education.

    And surely devoting a month to this isn't exactly stating that homosexuality is normal. By singling it out, the opposite is being said
  4. Obi_one_and_only Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2001
    star 5
    should be included with normal sex education.

    Yes, but is there normal sex education? I think this must be answered first.

    In my school, the only reference to sex was on AIDS talks, every December 1st. Of course, we laughed at it.
    I now regret it.
  5. halibut Ex-Mod

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    I was taught sex eduation in year 6 - the final year of junior school, at the age of 10-11. Certainly not at the age of 7
  6. Jarik Force Ghost

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    Jun 21, 2000
    star 4
    I don't have a problem with this being taught, but I don't see how you teach it before sex education in general. It should probably be included as a part of sex education. eally it should probably be taught by the parents, but you know as I think about it it probably isn't so important to think about too much. I don't even remember from where I learned about most stuff having to do with sex especially homosexuality. I mean my parents did teach me some things when I was younger but most I really just picked up as I went along. You learn a lot of things just by paying attention to what's going on around you.
  7. DarthKarde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 5
    I am in complete agreement with halibut on this. It is for parents to teach their children about such issues. What is being planned is deplorable and I wouldn't blame any parent for keeping their children out of school while it is going on.
  8. Darth-Zame43 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2004
    star 4
    Sheilding somebody from the facts(there are gay people) doesn't help them. If they ask, explain it to them.
  9. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    Sex education should start at age 11 or 12. Not age 5 or 6.
  10. Genrader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
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    While I do not think homosexuality is something that you are born with and can't do anything about, I understand some people choose to live that way.

    I think it is COMPLETELY up to the parents if and when and where to tell their children about sexual education and the fact that some people are homosexuals.

    I'm leaving this topic.
  11. Branthoris Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2002
    star 3
    As details on the No. 10 website demonstrate, this has absolutely nothing to do with sex education. It is aimed at targeting homophobic bullying. It seems that the government has provided some of the funding for certain materials that schools, at their discretion, can decide to use or not to use, towards the purpose of tackling such activity.

    This thread is treating this as a sex education issue, which it most certainly isn't. (Other sources, e.g. a BBC News report, confirm this.) The notion that a campaign against homophobic bullying will have seven-year-olds studying diagrams of anal sex, or anything of the sort, is just ridiculous. To be sure, children as young as 5 or 7 will realise, if they have not done so already, that such things as same-sex relationships exist, but I do not see that as a problem unless specifically sexual matters are covered.

    On the basis of the currently available information, concerns here seem completely misplaced.
  12. DarthKarde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 5
    It is aimed at targeting homophobic bullying.

    Perhaps I am being really stupid here but how do you target homophobic bullying with children as young as seven unless a considerable amount of sex education is involved.
  13. Cobranaconda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    hal, no I don't have kids.

    But I think that even at that age, they should be informed. Anyway, I started out with basic sex ed when I was in Year 4, 8-9 years. Its only normal that they're pushing it down like everything else.

    But it makes sense if its against homophobic bullying.
  14. Branthoris Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2002
    star 3
    I don't see how a "considerable" amount of sex education is necessary to tackle homophobic bullying at age 7, since most children of that age are already aware of sexual relationships in a more abstract sense. Homosexuality as an issue can certainly be dealt with without going into detail on the sexual act itself.

    If children of age 7 understand what marriage is, then they can equally well be made to understand what homosexuality is.
  15. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    This thread is treating this as a sex education issue

    Not at all. I don't want my 7 year old daughter (who is quite innocent at the moment) being told BY A TEACHER offensive terms for people who at the moment she knows NOTHING about. She knows nothing of sex at all at the moment, and I don't consider her old enough to grasp such concepts. When the time is right, or when she asks questions, my wife and I will educate her about such matters, and will certainly not discard gays in this. This situation falls into Personal and Social Education which shouldn't be tackled until Secondary school.

    If children at the age of 7 are taught about homophobia, it will cause them to ask a lot of questions that

    a) Parents will feel uncomfortable discussing at that age

    b) Children at that age shouldn't be worrying about.

    It is simply not a good idea

    EDIT:

    2 points (1 slightly facetious)

    As details on the No. 10 website demonstrate

    Well it that's what the government says..[rolleyes[



    and homophobic bullying at the age of 7? Excuse me? I certainly don't know any 7 year olds who know they are gay? Come on, at that age, they shouldn't even be having "relationships" with other children. If there is homophobic bullying at this age, then there is a more serious problem than 7-yr old homophobia!
  16. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
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    I have to say, I'm confused by this move. Obivously, this move is inappropriate if it's meant to be part of sex-education.

    But even as an anti-bullying tool, I don't see how it really makes sense. There are two ways to approach this:

    1. Homosexual children are being bullied because of their sexual preference- this doesn't make sense. Children are neither sexually mature, nor (for the most part) are they active at this age. How could one tell they were homosexual in an age before anyone even really starts taking a serious interest in the opposite sex? And even if they could, how could those that are supposed to be bullying them? This seems like a non-existent scenario to me.

    2. Children are being bullied using terms against homosexuals- Why does this need special explanation? Children aren't expected to use curse words either, but you don't have to explain the ins-and-outs of incest to forbid a kid from saying m---- f-----. You just keep the kids from saying it in the first place, or tell them not to repeat it if they do hear it.

    I don't see why all this is needed, which could in all likelihood have the opposite of the desired effect, besides being a pretty objectionable policy to begin with.
  17. halibut Ex-Mod

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    Great post, Jabba-wocky. I agree totally!
  18. darth_paul Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2000
    star 5
    Children don't even need to know that sex exists in order to know about homosexuality. All kids know about romance and things like that; to explain homosexuality, all that needs to be said is that some people fall in love with people of the opposite sex and some people fall in love with people of the same sex. I really don't think that's horrific sexual knowledge.

    If children at the age of 7 are taught about homophobia, it will cause them to ask a lot of questions
    GOOD. It's wonderful for children to ask lots of questions and try to learn about something, whatever that thing is.

    How could one tell they were homosexual in an age before anyone even really starts taking a serious interest in the opposite sex?
    I can't remember ever not being interested in the opposite sex. I had a memorably strong romantic attraction to a girl in my class at age 5 or 6. So I can definitely see how they could be aware of it.

    As of this issue, I'm not really decided. I can see pros and cons.

    -Paul
  19. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    halibut - It should be included with normal sex education.

    Why should teaching young children that some women will fall in love with other women be included in "normal" sex eduction? I find that rather odd, but I seem to be the only one, that they would go from teaching the child what a penis and what a vagina is and then going into how John loves his boyfriend, Tom. It just doesn't seem right. Homosexuality acceptance is not sex education, but rather a class on acceptance and teaching the children at a young age that everyone was created equal. Although, I do believe they should offer a whole class on that - and not just do it based solely on homosexuality, but race and religion, too. It's not sexual education, and therefor shouldn't be taught with sexual education.

    These children should be taught that homosexuality is acceptable - and exactly what it is (and that no one choose to be gay), but they shouldn't teach them slang words like 'faggot' and 'dyke' - that seems a little wrong to be taught in school, although I do think this project should be taught a later age (probably around 10). Not because a 7-year-old shouldn't learn what a homosexual is, but because it's not necessary at such a young age and would probably either not interest them or be too complicated for them.

    DarthKarde - It is for parents to teach their children about such issues.

    I can see why a lot of parents want to teach their own children about homosexuality, and strongly oppose the educational system doing it for them, but is it that big of a deal, that your kid will learn that a woman can love another woman from their teacher rather than you? I don't quite understand why some people are so against it, but that's because I don't see homosexuality as being wrong - by any means.

    Perhaps I am being really stupid here but how do you target homophobic bullying with children as young as seven unless a considerable amount of sex education is involved.

    You simply tell them that some men are attracted to other men and that some women are attracted to other women, and that it is perfectly acceptable and all men are created equal. They don't need to understand how a penis works to understand this, unless I'm completely missing something. A child, at that age, at least knows what a relationship is, and therefor, can understand what a homosexual relationship is. Remember, I think it should be taught at a later age (at least in 3rd Grade), but not because they shouldn't know what a homosexual is at that age.

    Genrader - While I do not think homosexuality is something that you are born with and can't do anything about, I understand some people choose to live that way

    This is more for the homosexuality debate, but that is ridiculous - how is a man supposed to do something about his feelings for another man? If he's physically attracted to a man, that's not him choosing to be attracted to him - or wanting to be attracted to the man, but he simply is and cannot do anything about it. Yes, he can choose not to come out and say that he's a homosexual, but he can't simply say to himself "Well, I don't want to be a homosexual - so I find Meghan over here more attractive than Mike over there." It's not that easy - and I'm sorry to anyone who thinks that it is.

    To clarify my point of view,

    I believe that teaching this subject to a child at the age of 7 is young, and should be held off for at least another two or three years. If they are going to teach this course, it shouldn't be teaching them homosexual slang words like "faggot" and "dyke", but teaching them that all some people are attracted to have relationships with people of the same gender, and that there is nothing wrong or unacceptable about this, as they can't choose who they're attracted to, and that all people are created equal. This course should be about acceptance in general, and should not rule out other factors, like religion and race, when teaching these children about acceptance. This course isn't "sexual educatio
  20. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    shinjo, while there have been some studies whose results could be considered as supporting your position, there is far from any scientific consensus that homosexuality is genetic and irreverisble.

    And further, your claim that attraction is completely uncontrollable doesn't seem to be entirely reasonable either. If that's the case, how do you explain the differences in standards of beauty? These things are culturally influenced. Your society helps impress upon you which features are "beautiful/attractive" in what proportions.

    Just wanted to point that out.
  21. J-Rod Force Ghost

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    Jul 28, 2004
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    These children should be taught that homosexuality is acceptable

    What if I believe and want to teach my child that homosexuality is a disfunction, like addiction or cleptomania? Does the school, with only their partial information, be allowed to tell my child I am wrong?

    and exactly what it is (and that no one choose to be gay)

    The research for that conclusion is incomplete. I can't find the studies right now, but there are statistics that show children who are molested have a greater chance of becoming homosexual.

  22. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    I'm going from my own experience and beliefs - I have no absolute control over who I'm attracted to. When I look upon someone like Jennifer Aniston, I find her very attractive and I've tried to convince myself that she's not attractive, but it doesn't work - I'm attracted to her. Then, I look at the person next to her - Brad Pitt, who I don't find attractive (as I'm not a homosexual), and I've tried to convince myself that I find him attractive - and I don't feel any different towards him. That's one of the stances I get my position from, take it or leave it. I don't understand who someone "chooses" to be a homosexual though - and that I'll never figure out, even if people keep insisting that they know it's true. I've had a friend, and seen many other people, commit suicide because they were homosexual - and I can't understand why someone would "choose" to be something that they would ultimately commit suicide because of, it just doesn't make sense.
  23. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
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    J-Rod - What if I believe and want to teach my child that homosexuality is a disfunction, like addiction or cleptomania? Does the school, with only their partial information, be allowed to tell my child I am wrong?

    That is your opinion, and mine is that they should be taught that homosexuals should be accepted and that they shouldn't hate someone simply because they are gay, I don't understand how you can disagree with it, but I suppose anything is possible. If you want to tell your kid that they shouldn't accept homosexuals as their peers and that they shouldn't associate with homsexuals, then be my guest - but I think your actions speak for themselves.

    I can't find the studies right now, but there are statistics that show children who are molested have a greater chance of becoming homosexual.

    I believe that, because they still don't choose to be homosexual - which is what I stated.
  24. Cyprusg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2002
    star 4
    What if I believe and want to teach my child that homosexuality is a disfunction, like addiction or cleptomania? Does the school, with only their partial information, be allowed to tell my child I am wrong?

    Yep. The school can't teach on a case to case basis, they look at all the kids and plan their curriculum accordingly. You can teach your kids that the holocaust never happened, but the school can't say "ok, well, 10% of the parents don't believe this happened so we obviously can't teach it anymore".

    If you don't like the way public school does things, take em out of it. If you don't want to do that, than suck it up and quit the whining. (not directly referring to you J-Rod)
  25. J-Rod Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
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    That is your opinion, and mine is that they should be taught that homosexuals should be accepted and that they shouldn't hate someone simply because they are gay, I don't understand how you can disagree with it, but I suppose anything is possible. If you want to tell your kid that they shouldn't accept homosexuals as their peers and that they shouldn't associate with homsexuals, then be my guest - but I think your actions speak for themselves.

    Oooops, it does sound like that is what I am saying.

    I meant that I don't believe it is a natural occurrance and shouldn't be taught as such.

    As far as accepting them, of course! At the end of the day it is their business.

    I can't find the studies right now, but there are statistics that show children who are molested have a greater chance of becoming homosexual.

    I believe that, because they still don't choose to be homosexual - which is what I stated.

    Point conceeded. I agree.

    EDIT: . The school can't teach on a case to case basis, they look at all the kids and plan their curriculum accordingly.

    As long as the facts are, indeed, the facts. We simply don't really know enough about homosexuality for a school to teach a definative class.
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