Gays in the military...

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by President-Clinton, Dec 23, 2001.

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  1. President-Clinton Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2001
    I swear I thought it was a great idea that would go over real well, but I got burned on that one pretty bad, but in the end, with true Clinton fashion I opted not for the right way or for the wrong way, but for the third way, with "Don't ask don't tell."

    How'd ya all feel about that one? I mean, I know you all love me except for some of you that hate me, and if you hate me, that's ok, because I still care about you, but regardless, on this issue, how'd ya feel?
  2. King-Jellyrobes Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2001
    star 1
    If they can do the job required of them, what's the difference?
  3. King-Jellyrobes Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2001
    star 1
    Have I mentioned I love satire?
  4. Quickstrike34 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2001
    star 5
    Proabbly sholdant poke fun at clinton.

    He proabbly has spys all over the place.





  5. McNerf-Burger Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 5
    Bill Clinton reminds me of a younger, slightly overweight Emperor Palpatine.
  6. Angel5000 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    i think that if they can do the job, then it doesn't really matter if they're gay or not. What would be the difference if they were?
  7. Sate_Pestage Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 4
    They should be allowed!!!

    In Ancient Rome, homosexuality was encouraged between members of the military. They felt that it created a bond between the fighters.

    Im not saying that we should turn the US military into a gay club but, I think taht they should be allowed and that is is fine that they serve. Afterall, its not about preferene or sex, its about protecting your country.
  8. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    We just had a debate about this in my political science class. I think that the military should be allowed to do things that other parts of government shouldn't. The fact is, the military is homophobic, and allowing gays in would simply send moral through the floor. Perhaps gays should be allowed in non-combat positions, but in combat, there are more important things to worry about than if the guy sleeping next to you in a foxhole is gay. However, I don't understand why anyone other than a maniac would knowingly get themselfs into war. I think the men going to war would want more women and gays, so they don't get killed.
  9. King-Jellyrobes Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2001
    star 1
    In Ancient Rome, homosexuality was encouraged between members of the military. They felt that it created a bond between the fighters."

    Since when should anyone follow any examples of ancient Rome? I won't even start on the problems they've gone through in the past.

  10. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    Who cares? I don't. Naah, let them serve. They are exercising there freedom to do almost whatever they want and they decided to protect the country that lets them exercise that right. Who cares?

    That may have sounded liberal of me but I am a classic liberal(Not one of them modern liberals.)
  11. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    So there aren't gays in the military? I always thought that there have always been gays in the military.
  12. King-Jellyrobes Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2001
    star 1
    As far as I know, one can hide their preference if they are a good enough actor. Back in the times of racial segregation, gays were probably terrified of speaking out, fearing they would be killed by their "fellow" soldiers. I'm straight, but even I know we can be really stupid about this subject. [face_plain]
  13. Liz Skywalker Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2000
    star 6
    my question: why does it matter that there are gays in the military? if homosexuals want to serve their country, then let them. why should it matter that they like people of their gender???
  14. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    Why the hell should it make any difference whether you're gay or not?
  15. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    It shouldn't, but until Clinton there was a ban on gays in the military, if you were found out, you were dishonorably discharged. Clinton originally wanted to lift the ban entireley, but came under heavy public fire, and I personally think that in some ways with the media Clinton was a wuss, so he went for the famous "don't ask don't tell."
  16. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    "so he went for the famous "don't ask don't tell."

    I would say that "policy" is just common sense.
  17. TPMrules23 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2000
    star 5
    Makes sense? What makes sense about kicking out someone who may have been well-respected b/c you found out something about their sexual orientation? What kind of example does that send?

    Alexander the Great was a homosexual I believe. And it is also quite possible Frederick the Great was a homosexual. (either that or he really disliked women? His father once told him he would "beat manly interests into them") Those are two pretty good leaders to follow.

    As a girl in my history class said about gays in combat, "do people really think a gay person is going to be in the middle of gun combat and go 'woah, Joe really has a nice a**?"
  18. Liz Skywalker Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2000
    star 6
    Alenander the Great was also a leftie. :)
  19. Han_YoungJediNiagara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2001
    star 3
    Is a person's sex life really a factor in serving his or her country?

    If a man is willing to pick up a gun and defend his country, I don't care whether or not he's into guys or girls. Nobody should consider allowing him into the military based on that. It's the same case with discriminatory hiring for jobs. It's just not a realistic factor anymore.
  20. Primetime_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2000
    star 4
    Isn't it obvious that sexual orientation plays a factor? There's one big thing that helps win wars and that's morale.

    If you are in a foxhole with Private Smith, literally sleeping on top of each other, (this happens in war) and you find out he's gay, that could make someone quite uncomfortable. Granted, if there are bombs exploding around you then you might not worry about it too much. But, there is a lot of down time out there on the front which gives men lots of time to think.

    In World War II at least it was common practice for men to keep each other warm with their body heat. If the other guy is a homosexual...would that not be a little weird? It would depend on the person since everybody has different comfort levels. But to say that it makes no difference is not taking into account all the variables.
  21. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    I think it has less to do with descrimination and more to do with the reason why women are not allowed on submarines. You get a gay guy in close quarters with a lot of other men, and the other men can start to feel really uncomfortable - even if nothing happens.
  22. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    so what. That's the same ridiculously inane and ignorant reasoning that kept blacks and whites from serving together in the army. Some issues I can see both sides of the coin (say, abortion or universal health care), but gay rights is not one of them. I have little respect for such an anti-equality position.
  23. TripleB Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 4
    As a veteran of Operation Desert Storm and Somalia, and countless other deployments from late 1994 in operation :MAKE CLINTON LOOK GOOD FOR THE MIDTERM elections, I am going to guess I am going to shock alot of people when I saw that I have no problem with gays in the military or with DONT ASK/DON'T TELL.

    I mean, before 1947, the supposed experts said that blacks were incapable of being good soldiers, that was the rallying cry against President Truman when he ordered the military to integrate.
  24. ktwsolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2001
    star 4
    I agree, there is no reason to not let gays defend their country. If that man feels uncomfortable in the foxhole, I mean, really. Most people know that gays are among the most non-aggressive members of society; they don't go around raping other men. That's like feeling uncomfortable in a foxhole with a black person.
  25. keiran_helcyan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 1999
    star 4
    "Alexander the Great was a homosexual I believe."

    He also had sex with children [face_plain] I don't think we should base current policy on a civilization almost 3000 years old.

    IMHO the don't ask/don't tell policy is best for now. Our government shouldn't especially care about its soldiars sexual orientation, and our soldiers shouldn't feel the need to inform everyone they meet on what type of people they enjoy having sex with.
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