[GEN] Age Discrimination on the Boards

Discussion in 'Communications' started by TARATR, Aug 3, 2004.

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  1. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    Yes, I agree with Darth Guy.
    Like I said being alive at the time does not mean you will agree. There are those alive during the Carter Administration who like the guy (stranger things have happened). There are those alive at the time who think he was a terrible President. Then there are kids who were not alive and have their own opinions. People disagree and where you are or where you are not should not hamper your ablity to debate or your right to argue the subject. It helps your argument if you were alive. You can draw on your own experience, but that does not mean others cannot debate it.

    -Seldon
  2. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    I agree with Seldon and Guy. I've studied about the history of the United States and the World a lot in my time. I can't claim i lived through any of it, but is it really my fault that i was born the year that i was? No, but i can say that i've read about a cirtain event and that i'm knowledgeable about it. No, i didn't wake up the morning Reagan was shot and hear about it on the news. No, i didn't go to bed at night crying because there was an attack at Pearl Harbor. One thing is clear, though, i'm here now and you can't do one thing to stop that.

    As Guy said, young people have as much knowledge on political issues as adults. We are around. We hear the news and it effects our lives just as much as it effects yours. You had to face the gas prices and many other things after 9/11, we had to face tighter security in schools and other public places. Now, i'm not going to say our hardships are as bad as yours, but when our relatives died in the WTC, we were the same.
  3. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    Nice post, and I agree.

    I remember when I was fourteen, fifteen, posting here. People would always try to invalidate me because of my age. I was young, yes, but that doesn't mean I was wrong. Even posting at other places like Aldera.net and Episosde-X, people treated me the same. It's so stupid. Why can't we just get along, without puting people down because they are a certain age? I remember in TPM forums I was banned for three weeks for no apparent reason. The mod claimed it was because of multiple flames, but I wasn't doing anything more than any of those "bashers" were saying. I asked for a detailed response from Quix-Sith, and do you know what? I never got one. I know that my age in this was a major factor.

    My Banning

    ...it spans over about two or three pages.

    Children should be seen, not heard

    Considering Malkie, a MOD, said this; a person who is supposed to try to look at things from an unbiased point of view, is extremely disturbing.
  4. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    i always had the indication that age wasn't really an issue on here, with the exception of the Senate and the Class of '77.

    I'm 20 and i talk to people on here who are younger than me and i don't really find that out that unless i'm really curious. Coruscant, who i've known on here for a year is five years younger than me, i wouldn' have known if i hadn't looked at his profile and that hasn't affected anything about what i think of him.

    True, in certain debates age does play a vital part, particularly with contraversial matters and historical matters. But everyone has an opinion, and it can be heard on here as long as it's....clean.

    Wisdom has no age, i couldn't agree with you more.
  5. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    "But everyone has an opinion, and it can be heard on here as long as it's....clean."

    True, but shouldn't those opinions be informed? If someone makes the claim, "Carter was a good President," then shouldn't he have some basis for such an outlandish claim? Sure, he doesn't have to have a firm basis for such a ludicrous assertion, but those of us who were more than just a gleam in our daddy's eye during the Carter Administration don't have to respect such an ill-informed opinion do we?

    I'm all for dissent, but shouldn't dissent be based on something substantive? Isn't it appropriate to call into question the credibility of someone making outrageous claims that are contrary to historical fact? If some kid tells me that Jimmy Carter didn't almost cave into Communism and Islamofascism within a single term, then I'm going to question that kid's credibility. Had he been alive during the period in question, perhaps he would have a more well-established appreciation for the international shame of Carter's failures in the Middle East, his spiraling capitulations in the face of Communist expansion, his malicious mishandling of the economy, gas rationing, stagflation, killer rabbits, Billy Beer, and bad hair.

    I don't expect young children to fully understand and appreciate such events that happened before their birth, and Darth-Seldon has consistently validated my low expectations. But I do expect those same children to either educate themselves a bit before engaging in commentary about subjects of which they know nothing, or I expect them to stop muddying viable discussions with their uninformed blathering.

    AYBABTU

  6. Kyp Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2003
    star 4
    I'm only 15 and from India, and even I know enough about the Carter Administration to realize that Seldon is out to lunch. Our history books tell a different story than the one Seldon is telling. Older people here in India tell stories of how Carter was so terrible that the entire world was threatened. Indians saw the spread of Communism on his watch. We have long struggled against Islamo-fascism in Kashmir, and we respect those who stand against it. Carter did not.

    And you talk about Carter bringing about peace between Israel and Egypt? Heh! Israel was just a couple of days from marching into Cairo. That's why there is peace between Egypt and Israel. Israel forced the issue, not Carter.

    So, I'm 15 and am aware of all this. So I guess age really isn't the reason you're so of-base, Seldon. You should stop blaming age discrimination on your troubles and start looking inward. Maybe you should just educate yourself a bit more on a subject before you start making claims that history has long since proven wrong.
  7. Qui Gon Jim23 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    Listen, I'm just trying to protect my God-given right to condescend to teenagers. If it weren't for that freewheeling Carter Administration , I'm sure my right to talk down to kids would not be in jeopardy here on at the JC.

    Now what is ironic is that Darth_Guy and Seldon are in here complaining, when they are the ones -- thanks to their outlandish belief structures -- whose age I never need to bring up, as simple fact and logic can debunk their arguments.
  8. carmenite42 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 4
    Listen, I'm just trying to protect my God-given right to condescend to teenagers.

    Wait - why do you have the right to condescend teenagers, but gay people don't have the right to get married?
  9. Qui Gon Jim23 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    I'm assuming you're demonstrating just how ludicrous the arguments that Seldon and Darth_Guy espouse are. But since that's not the focus of this thread I won't dignify it with a response.

    Now if you want to discuss the dismal failure of the Carter Administration and its effect on the whole gay "rights" movement, that's a different story.

  10. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    Because free speech is an inalienable right guaranteed by the US Constitution. Marriage is a construct of the state and can be regulated as such.

    See... that was easy.

    AYBABTU

  11. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    I have never once said Carter was a good President.
    What I did say was that not everything in the administration was terrible, that is not the same thing. I don't need to be flamed! Regardless of how bad Carter was he did do some good things. That is what I said. Personally I don't consider him a good leader. You said he did nothing good at all, I said he did...I never said he did everything well or that he was a good leader.

    -Seldon
  12. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    For the record, Seldon, you also haven't been able to describe one thing that he did well.

    And that's why we're in this thread, isn't it? You took offense to the fact that I suggested your age had something to do with your ignorance with respect to the Carter Administration. And therein lies the crux of this. I asked for something good that he did, and you have yet to produce anything. Why is that? My original thought was that your age had something to do with it, so I mentioned that I was willing to give you a pass because of your childlike innocence. Is that discrimination? I don't think it is. I think I am using logic and reason to give you an excuse for your inability to tell me about any of the positive things you assert about the Carter Administration.

    Is this thread about Carter? Of course it isn't. It's a thread about age discrimination at the JC, and you are claiming victim status because you can't tell us what Carter did that should make history view him as anything but an unequaled and dismal failure.

    So the truth of the matter is that you do not have as good a grasp of Carter as many others have, and seriously... nor do I. I was barely five when Reagan was inaugurated, but I do have a memory of the Carter years. Someone a few years older than I would have a more credible opinion. So age and experience do matter. It isn't discriminatory to take into account a person's background when evaluating the credibility of his opinions.

    And really... please do tell me something good about Carter. The best thing I can think of that he did was provide the inspiration for a great Saturday Night Live skit where Dan Aykroyd, as Jimmy Carter, grew to a hundred feet tall after being mutated by radiation from Three Mile Island. Other than that, he nearly ruined the country.

    AYBABTU

  13. Qui Gon Jim23 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    Don't forget the Democrat controlled Congress. They had a hand in those dismal years as well.
  14. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    I'm too young to remember.

    AYBABTU

  15. FateNaberrie Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2000
    star 6
    For the record, Seldon, you also haven't been able to describe one thing that he did well.


    I hear his peanuts were superb.
  16. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    Seldon, i can't really say i see a reason to keep debating with AYBABTU. He's made it abundantly clear he has no desire to accept anyone under the age of 18 into his "circle of trust". Perhaps we should discuss this with someone with a less-biased point of view?

    Excuse me for dissing your almighty Carter Administratiion, AYBABTU, but even if someone did state a true fact about it i seriously doubt you'd accept the individual for being "beyond the others". So what's the point in argueing with you?
  17. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    In past experience I think that the walls listen to me better then some people around here.

    For the final time (I have said it over and over) The peace with Egypt has lasted till this day and was a great thing that Carter did. It was a long battle to get it, and there was a war during the process but that peace is still lasting today. That is what I told you before, that is one good thing Carter did was create the peace between the Jews and the Egyptians. I told you that in the other thread. Don't bash my "ignorance" when you know very well one good thing about Carter. I told it before and I don't plan on saying it again. This is not a Carter Discussion. The peace with Egypt was one good thing that came out of his administration.

    -Seldon
  18. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    I cannot believe knowledge of Jimmy Carter is the basis for age-discrimination on a Star Wars messageboard. :rolleyes:
  19. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    I can clearly see you know plenty about Carter, Seldon, but it doesen't look like AYBABTU is going to care about anything any of us say.
  20. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
  21. comet1440 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2004
    star 4
    SAPE you should investigate the claim I made earlier on in this thread , it is here
  22. saberlord99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2002
    star 3
    What do you want to come of Sapient investigating? If you want bannings say so.
  23. Qui Gon Jim23 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    It was a long battle to get it,

    Actually, the relevant war took 6 days, but in the eyes of the short attention span MTV kids, I'm sure that seems like a long time.
  24. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    "I cannot believe knowledge of Jimmy Carter is the basis for age-discrimination on a Star Wars messageboard."

    Neither can I. I also can't believe that someone would give Jimmy Carter credit for the Old Testament-calibre whoopin' Israel put on Egypt, thus convincing Egypt to stop trying to push Israel into the sea, and establishing a tenuous peace that has listed to the present.

    So maybe what we're learning is that this isn't really about age, but about knowledge and appreciation of a subject before attempting to engage in a discussion of it. But is there any denying that personal experience is a better way to gain an understanding of an issue than reading someone else's perspective on it? And if that's the case, then shouldn't the opinion of someone who has lived during the period in question be more valued than the opinion of someone who is simply relating what someone else told him to think?

    And I'm not talking about just Seldon, Carter, and me. I was a small child during the Carter Administration, but I am nearer to it than he is, and in this case that gives me a better perspective than Seldon. But what we've heard from many of the kids in this thread is that age should never play a role in determining one's credibility. That's just nutty. Of course it should. And at the same time, that credibility gap can easily be overcome by illustrating a decent working knowledge of the issue, and a willingness to accept a more credible point of view as the correct one, if indeed it is correct. For instance, the more familiar one is with the Carter Administration, the less likely he or she is to give him the credit for making peace between Israel and Egypt. Israel was less than 100km from Cairo when they stopped fighting, and their seizure of land forced the closing of the Suez for 8 years. The fact that they signed the agreement on Carter's watch doesn't really amount to much. And a full one-half of the agreement that you give Carter credit for, the establishment of a Palestinian state, was never recognized by Israel.

    It is possible for one to gain awareness of these facts despite his or her age. When made aware of these things a person still cites it as a positive, then either that person still doesn't grasp the truth (perhaps based on his lack of real world perspective on the event) or that person is unwilling to adjust his flawed opinion.

    As has been illustrated several times, in the context of the JC or elsewhere, age is a relevant trait to consider when establishing one's credibility on any number of subjects.

    "I can clearly see you know plenty about Carter, Seldon, but it doesen't look like AYBABTU is going to care about anything any of us say."

    Ironic, then, that you are the ones discounting facts related by people who are apt to know more on the subject than you do.

    AYBABTU

  25. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    Actually Q_G_J I don't have cable, I hardly watch TV and I don't think I have ever seen MTV.
    I guess that goes to show you that sterotypes don't always work.

    And Egypt has been at peace ever since Carter.

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