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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

[GEN] How should the Mod Squad be Reviewed?

Discussion in 'Communications' started by DarthMatter, Jun 25, 2007.

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  1. oqidaun

    oqidaun Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    o_O Really? Our decision to hold a survey was not precipitated by any particular event. You're welcome to visit the thread where the results were posted and discussed.
     
  2. AaylaSecurOWNED

    AaylaSecurOWNED Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2005
    No, I mean the fallout afterwards. Again, I only have one post in fanfic, and my experience in fanfic is limited to reading the Thrawd series, but from what I was told two mods quit because of the drama.
     
  3. rhonderoo

    rhonderoo Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    Actually that was a couple of years ago, this survey was just done about a month ago. Much different circumstances as this one went quite well. Heck they had two focus groups back then and it still got that bad.
     
  4. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    I think it was from WAY back Oqi - when we as a community did go through a rather large storm at one point. The last survey was over all, pretty 'harmless' in it's after math, which again goes to show how many positive changes fan fiction has seen.

    As for the other comments that have been levied my way...

    [face_plain]
     
  5. AaylaSecurOWNED

    AaylaSecurOWNED Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2005
    Ah, well then I take it back. Kudos to fanfic for a succesful feedback survey.

    The question of why it's necessary for all forums still stands.
     
  6. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    It really falls under 'would it work for that particular community?' In the JCC I can see the responses:

    HAWT

    Boobiees

    Serious remark

    QFT

    *poop* LOL


    But that's the very nature of the JCC...
     
  7. oqidaun

    oqidaun Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Oh that ****storm, gotcha. :-B
     
  8. AaylaSecurOWNED

    AaylaSecurOWNED Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2005
    Exactly. And in the movie forums, it would probably get a "What does this have to do with Star Wars?" kind of reaction. If the fanfic mods saw a need for it and instituted it and it went well, then great. Same with Ender and the Senate. But if a board doesn't need it then why bother or why force them?
     
  9. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2001
    Which is why as much as possible we're going to see what the individual forum mods think is best for their particular forums. That may include an overhaul, a tweak, or nothing at all because the system's in place or the nature of the forum dictates its necessity or not.
     
  10. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    The trouble is that that concept is dependent on truly good moderators for each forum, which has never been the case board-wide (no matter what point in JC history you use). If a moderator is burnt out and/or out of touch (he two are not the same thing), the forum can drift along if left to one or multiple moderator's whims.
     
  11. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2001
    That can be true but we look at, as much as possible, what mods are doing. There's a great new feature that wasn't there when you were here that lets us see all the important stats of anyone VIP or higher. I can see how much they're posting, especially as compared to mods in the same forum. We can see disparities if one mod in the forum's doing all the work or not. We used to have to do all that manually before. Rhonda, gabe, and I will PM those mods of forums if we see trouble or them being idle. It can be a sign of entrenchment or burn out. There was a time long ago when many mods didn't even get promoted to a forum. They were simply generalist mods and most times they sort of blended in, enjoyed the colors, but had no real responsibility or accountability. All I can tell you Josh is that we hear you, we are talking about it as actively in private as in here, we'll implement changes where they're needed, and we're talking about how to better assess a mod's performance and provide meaningful feedback from as many objective sources as possible.
     
  12. -polymath-

    -polymath- SFF:F/TV Trivia Host star 4 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2007
    EDIT: no comment
     
  13. DarthMatter

    DarthMatter Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2004
    Boy, we're cookin' now!! =D=

    Good, let's leave this issue off the table, because it's probably irrelevant, despite the fact that it's not "wrong". I think we're all really close to seeing the same thing here.

    [AOTC Obi-Wan]Possibly...[/AOTC Obi-Wan] ;)

    Thank you for this, and for your patience. I think I see where you're coming from on this. You're right, I just passed 400 posts in 3 years the other day (already made fun of myself in the film thread, folks), and there are lots of forums where I have no posts at all. However, I have read a heck of a lot more than I've posted, by a factor of...well, a lot. Personally, I think the degree of picking on people in some of the social forums is a problem, and it spills over into other forums inappropriately, and for that reason, I don't bother with such forums, as my style is more about content and logical argument. So, there's something that could be at least addressed through this process, IF it is seen as a problem by JCC folks. Regardless, though, I don't think that it matters where I've been posting. It matters that all moderators have some kind of feedback on their performance, that the admins have some kind of feedback on the boards in general, and most importantly, that the users have some kind of extra "forum", or outlet, where they can contribute to the JC without having to be moderators to do so. PMs are great, Comms is great, but this would be that extra "umphh" which would complete the circle and serve to break down barriers between us all.

    Then, we're all mostly on the same page (or at least in the same chapter). As long as "nothing at all" means that the approach to a review is still done, but in that review it is decided that a particular forum is peachy and needs to be left alone, then I'd say this is fine. Put the shoe on the other foot - if the Fan Fic folks have gone to the trouble to do what they did and some other forum gets a pass and does nothing, then you'll have a problem. As long as every forum addresses the review process as the mods see best, regardless of the outcome, then it's all good.
     
  14. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    This is what I'm not understanding. The fan fic mods are already doing a sort of review process because they've chosen to do so. Other forums are not doing this... and there really is no problem to speak of. I'm not understanding how there will be a problem.
     
  15. DarthMatter

    DarthMatter Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2004
    Well, the difference is that Sapient and rhonderoo have already said they want something like this to go forward. If Fan Fic and others have already done it, they should get the pass, and the others need to address the review, somehow. Otherwise, the claims will be favouritism, double-standards, slack management, pet mods, and so on. You'd want to avoid that.
     
  16. rhonderoo

    rhonderoo Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    Fan Fic's history is why they have this process, and if you're not real familiar with that, then you'll not understand fully why exactly they are very cognizant of getting feedback. But JCC has always brought their issues to Comms, so forums as a whole approach feedback a different way. Sape and I aren't advocating doing this across the board cookie cutter style, at all. Like he said above, a lot of this will be up to individual forums as far as the how, when and how much, as well as to discuss if they need feel they need to change what they do now.
     
  17. oqidaun

    oqidaun Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    QFT

    Each board is different. Each board has its own dynamic, its own history and most definitely its own quirks.
    As moderating teams we work to address the needs of our individual boards--those are the users we know best.
     
  18. DarthMatter

    DarthMatter Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2004
    Exactly, it's agreed, then - no cookie cutters. ;) Actually, I'm not sure why this is still a misunderstanding. It seems no problem to me to have the mods figure out how to address the review for their forum. Give them some time and let them be creative and have fun with it.
     
  19. rhonderoo

    rhonderoo Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    That's exactly what we're doing. ;) They have the choice to do it or not in their individual forums, but mods are discussing if and how they'd like to do it between the forum teams.
     
  20. AaylaSecurOWNED

    AaylaSecurOWNED Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2005
    You'll forgive me for being blunt, but reading a forum doesn't give you the kind of experience that posting in it does. I mentioned this in another thread (I think the baiting thread) but everyone gets hazed in JCC, and if you haven't gone through that personally or engaged with some of the colorful crowd that inhabits the forum, you really haven't experienced it. I'm willing to bet that most of the boards here and everywhere on the internet are like that. And for the record, sure JCC is known for poop jokes and lolcats, but there is also content and logical argument there. I'm not saying that it's the forum for you. And I'll concede that if you don't enjoy reading it, then you probably won't enjoy posting in it, but you could afford not to be so inaccurately condescending in your criticisms.

    While I agree that feedback is important, forcing or asking users to give feedback isn't always the best way to get it. I know a lot of people, myself included, who volunteer feedback whether it's appreciated or not. The "extra 'forum'" you keep proposing just doesn't seem to be something that can't be just as effectively accomplished via PM or Comms. I just don't see the gap in the the circle that you seem to see.


    And this part is not really my place to say, but it's annoying me so very much that I can't leave it unmentioned: bossing around mods and admins isn't really the way to gain favor around here.
     
  21. epic

    epic Ex Mod star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 1999
    IF they want a review in the first place. which they won't. the end.
     
  22. DarthMatter

    DarthMatter Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2004
    Then forgive me, too: This is irrelevant. Continuing to make this about me is fruitless, don't you agree? What I said was it didn't matter what I'd posted or where, because it's not about me, ASO. You keep coming after me in all kinds of clever ways, but it's still attacking the person and not the idea, and certainly not the logic - not to mention that this wasn't even my idea in the first place. Maybe some of your comments are meant to be funny, and maybe in JCC they would be, but try to refute the very simple maxim that since it's not about me, it's not about my posting habits or the forums I do or don't go into, nor would it be in any case you care to name. What you're saying is that my posts make this whole idea invalid, which is patently absurd.

    ...then you agree to this, implicitly...

    That's funny (not ha-ha), since nobody has mentioned "forcing" anyone to do anything. But, asking users for feedback isn't the best way?? Is that really what you meant? So, you're saying that, on principle, some vague process of trying to guess is better than a clear one, or that PM'ing a mod is the only way, something which even some of the mods have agreed isn't a one-size-fits-all thing to do? C'mon.

    QFT on that one, and I'm probably in that same camp. There are many, many people who would have had the same ideas and reasoning I've had in here, but not many would put themselves in this position. I essentially argued for something that few here wanted to talk about, and now even you are saying you're basically okay with it (and you've said it more than once).

    Surely the mods would laugh at that one. It's ludicrous to suggest that my little thread here is bossing anyone to do anything.

    So, let me get this straight: Your argument is that all users, without exception, should either be satisfied with a PM they may be uncomfortable to send, or they should come into Comms and possibly get heckled for posting feedback on, say the JCC, and anyone who says different just doesn't understand how the JCC works, in that feedback is unwelcome there? Well, there's probably 5 ways to refute your argument, and there all right here in this thread, because it's already been refuted about 5 ways. No forum on this website is above review, and none should feel threatened by it. Even Comms should have a review (oh no, did I say that??).

    Let me ask: Do you think the JCC is in danger from such a review? Since I wouldn't know, are you some kind of "big fish" user there who might be threatened by this, or put another way, would any user be threatened by this? If neither, then why are you so dead against a simple, fun review like the one in Fan Fic? Why shouldn't we have better communication around here, another option to interact with mods which dovetails with what we already have, an additional interactive way to contribute to progress of TF.N? On what basis can you really argue for things to just stay just as they are?? But, don't repeat that tired old line, "if it ain't broke...", because that's too easy. For one thing, we shouldn't be "complacent", as Sapient said in the other thread, and for another, who says it ain't broke*?


    * so to speak
     
  23. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    You can ask, but I think what ASO is getting at is that you have no control over who responds. And you can't force that.

    So the feedback you get may suck ass or it may be really good, but you have no control over it.
     
  24. Everton

    Everton Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jul 18, 2003
    Sorry, but you're on the verge of taking this far too seriously yourself. That 'tired old line', no matter how easy you claim it is to roll out, is extremely apt. You seem to have argued past the past that very simple point, now appearing convinced it's just a lame response in an 'argument'. Well it's not, it's more than that. Just because something's an easy response doesn't mean it's not correct. This is the Internet, and this is a fun board, the JCC is... sorry in advance... fine as it is. To start introducing ideas to try (in vain) to produce a perfectly knitted together community is simply not going to result in that. You just can't claim something is needed because it 'might' help. That doesn't stack up.
     
  25. -polymath-

    -polymath- SFF:F/TV Trivia Host star 4 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2007
    We all must remember that the JC, and the JCC in particular, cannot be everything for everyone.
     
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