General Kenobi...

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by ParanoidAni-droid, Mar 14, 2002.

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  1. ParanoidAni-droid Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2001
    star 4
    ...you served my father during the clone wars.

    Well, we are on the eve of AOTC and still no sign of Obi-wan joining the military and rising in it's ranks nor doing anything on the behalf of Bail Organa. The one mission we seem to have any indication of is on behalf of the council, not Bail.

    The problem with Leia's diolouge is that it is so vauge. There's many ways to serve some one during a war. Heck, Obi could've been a nurse to Bail for all we know. The question is, do the Jedi themselves have ranks like "general"? If not, then Obi-wan needs to be a part of either this new clone army or some private alderaanian military or who knows what!!

    So this is a serious... oh, how did Jar Jar put it, "ouch-time," for LFL. If this is not addressed in AOTC then that leaves it to EP 3 and I think poor Obi-wan is going to have enough problems of his own with Anakin.

    Of course, Bail might have just told Leia that but why?

  2. Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2000
    star 5
    Maybe "Jedi" was a word that you didn't speak of openly. Its possible that, while Bail trusted Leia, he couldn't be sure that she would understand the importance of not revealing a hidden Jedi's location (especially Vader's former master).

    He could have told her that an Obi was very helpful to him once and if she needed help, she could turn to him. When she asked what he did during the war, he lied and labeled him a General so that she wouldn't question it any further. Just my theory anyhow. Great question :)

    What I always wondered was why Leia calls him Ben when Luke first's enters her cell. She uses Obi-Wan in her message. I always thought Obi assumed that name once he got to Tatooine. Luke sure didn't connect Obi-Wan = Ben, why did she?
  3. darkjedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2000
    star 2
    Good point about Leia saying Ben. That's something I've never caught.

    To answer the question about General Obi-Wan, who knows where Episode 3 starts. It could open with Obi-Wan in the middle of a battle leading clones.
  4. Miles Lodson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 1998
    star 3
    My guess:

    the Clone Wars will eventually evolve into what we know as the Rebellion, and Organa will undoubtedly be a leader in this movement. Kenobi will serve as a General in Episode III in this capacity.
  5. jedichickenofdoom Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Obi Wan could have made general in Episode III. He does serve Organa in the Clone Wars, although no sight of Organa fighting. Probably at home passed out.
  6. theTrueMolerocket Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 1
    if you are waiting for someone named obi-wan kenobi to rescue you, and someone enters your cell saying they're here with BEN kenobi to rescue you, I don't think you stop to ask about the vagaries of given names.
  7. jedisrm Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    star 4
    when luke comes in the cell, he first says to her "Im here to rescue you, I got your R2 unit, Im here with Ben Kenobi.

    So he said it first, and Leia must have figured it was Obi-Wan.
  8. Hama Retired GSA, Retired RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2000
    star 6
    I agree. I think the "General" rank comes later, in Episode Three.
  9. Darth-Mouth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 1999
    star 4
    Yoda: "Begun this Clone War has."

    Clone WarS implies more than one, possibly fought for different reasons. I agree with whoever said that the Clone Wars would eventually end up being Palpatine vs. Jedi et al
  10. Disco_Dark_Jeedai Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2001
    star 4
    Who is to say that Obi Wan doesn't leave the Jedi order to join the fight against the Clones and becomes the General of the army against the Clones?

    Afterall, Mace says in AOTC that they cannot fight a war for the Republic, maybe Obi Wan decides ("I sense Qui-Gon's defiance in you") that that is what he must do? It would be another meaning to his line in ANH: "I was ONCE a Jedi like your Father." Isn't he still a Jedi? I would assume that if you are a Jedi, you are a Jedi forever until you die or until you leave the order. Even if you were the last Jedi in the galaxy, you would still consider yourself a Jedi. Especially if you are going to persuade someone to follow you.

    What do you think?

  11. SomeRandomNerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    >>>>Afterall, Mace says in AOTC that they cannot fight a war for the Republic, maybe Obi Wan decides ("I sense Qui-Gon's defiance in you") that that is what he must do?

    You mean he ignores his commitment to the Jedi order and goes off on some damnfool idealistic crusade?
  12. EagleIFilms Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2001
    star 5
    No, no, that'd never happen!
  13. Darth-Mouth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 1999
    star 4
    Obi-Wan isn't going to leave the Jedi order.

    In my opinion he'll spend the beginning of Episode III leading a movement against the growing power of the Emperor. The separatists, who we know are ALSO bad guys though of a different variety, will be defeated and the clones will be used as a police force keeping everyone else in order through fear. The Jedi will defect and fight the clones, led by Obi-Wan and Bail Organa presumably.

    But one would think that Obi-Wan will be spending MOST of the moving worrying about/seeking out/fighting Anakin.
  14. Disco_Dark_Jeedai Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2001
    star 4
    Why not? If you follow the EU stuff (yes, I know some here think it is taboo) Obi Wan did leave the order once before.
  15. Darth-Mouth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 1999
    star 4
    I think Obi-Wan speaking in the past tense about his being a Jedi merely reflects his lamentation that there ARE no more Jedi.

    Obi-Wan is the CONSUMMATE Jedi in every way. He is meant to be because it provides a great foil to Anakin.
  16. EagleIFilms Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2001
    star 5
    Why not? If you follow the EU stuff (yes, I know some here think it is taboo) Obi Wan did leave the order once before.

    Was that in responce to me?

    If so, I was just being sarcastic. What he said sounded good about Obi-Wan leaving the order on some 'damn fool idealistic crusade'.

    Maybe join the seperatist movement?
  17. Darth-Mouth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 1999
    star 4
    Obi-Wan joining Dooku? Hmmm...I guess that depends on just who Dooku turns out to be doesn't it?

    I mean, we DO see both Obi-Wan and Anakin fighting Dooku, who heads the separatist movement.

    Perhaps the second separatist movement has no connection to the first and it made up of Jedi Knights and future members of the Rebellion. THAT I could see.
  18. EagleIFilms Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2001
    star 5
    I envision:

    Dooku = Sith, leader of seperatist movement

    Dooku is killed by some Jedi in AotC or Episode III.

    Obi-Wan agrees with the ideals of the seperatist movement, even though he disagreed with the leader.

    Obi-Wan joins/leads seperatst movement after Dooku's death, maybe leaves Jedi Order.

    Palpatine declares himself Emporer.

    Seperatist movement becomes Rebellion.
  19. Darth-Mouth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 1999
    star 4
    I gotcha EagleI. ;)

    My only problem with your theory is that, aside from the fact that they both oppose Palpatine, the separatist movement as we know it in AOTC bears NO resemblance in membership or in ideals to the Rebellion, which Obi-Wan is obviously sympathetic to.

    The separatist movement in AOTC is fueled by a laisezz-faire (sp?) philosophy harbored by the Trade Federation, Commerce Guild, Bank Union, etc. who no longer wish to live under the rules of the Republic, which cost them money in the form of taxes and tariffs.

    The Rebellion is more about the ideal of human freedom as opposed to monetary freedom and "getting the government off our backs". Also, the Rebellion does not use TF Droids and there is no mention of Nute Gunray or anyone like that.

    So that's basically it. I do agree with you that Dooku is probably a Sith (red saber) but I think he's actually on the same side as Palpatine. I mean can these guys REALLY afford to be fighting each other, considering there are TWO of them and about a million of everyone else?
  20. Miles Lodson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 1998
    star 3
    Darth-Mouth:

    The only problem with your theory is that the Trade Federation was actually blockading Naboo in TPM to ENFORCE the trade tax (which was really a tariff). So even if you are correct in terms of who is formally fighting who, the political motives you assign may not be correct.

    And for the record, human freedom DOES include the freedom from oppresive taxation.
  21. Darth-Mouth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 1999
    star 4
    I'll concede that I may have gotten the tariff issue backwards, though the Trade Federation would be just as likely to oppose a tariff that hindered its ability to function as it would to support a tariff that enhanced its ability to function.

    I disagree about the taxation issue. The freedom to assemble, to speak freely and to criticize government (all of which seem to have disappeared under the rule of the Empire) supercede, in my opinion, the right not to be taxed. Taxation is a necessary evil. And the freedom not to be overly burdened by taxation, while important, is not in the same category of importance as the freedom to speak, assemble and worship.

    For example, many countries in Europe under quasi-Socialist governments live in peace despite huge income tax burden in the 70 or 80 percent range. They are able to do so because it's people enjoy freedoms not enjoyed by those living under the Empire in the SW Universe.
  22. Miles Lodson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 1998
    star 3
    And those same countries don't enjoy anywhere near the level of prosperity as the United States or Asian nations with vastly lower tax burdens. But you are correct that they are better to live in than, say, the Soviet Union.

    I realize that taxes are necessary, but notice that I said "oppressive" taxation...not ANY taxation.

    And as far as the tariff issue, there used to be a great thread in the TPM forum on why the Trade Federation was blockading Naboo...I couldn't find it though.

  23. Darth-Mouth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 1999
    star 4
    I think my original point was that it's tough to see exactly where and how the AOTC separatist movement, led by greedy bureaucrats, could morph into the Rebellion.

    I think a three-way fight is more likely than a Jedi-Trade Federation coalition, though neither is as likely as the Jedi and certain Republic members simply forming a distinctly different separatist movement after the Trade Federation crew is vanquished.
  24. Miles Lodson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 1998
    star 3
    Yeah I agree. Maybe the Jedi form their own separatist movement, and then the TF and the Republic combine forces against them? Isn't that what Palpatine really wants?

    I think he is doing this whole thing to ostracize the Jedi...triangulation if you will.
  25. Darth-Mouth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 1999
    star 4
    Your last point is well taken. I think he and Dooku are certainly in cohoots and that Dooku is getting ready to hang the separatists out to dry along with the Jedi.

    However, I see he and Palpatine WIPING OUT the Trade Federation first before going against the Jedi rather than UNITING with them. That move would probably reveal his sinister intentions earlier than he would like. After his clones beat the separatists (something even the Jedi admit THEY couldn't have done) he will be wildly popular and will be able to go after his next and main target, the Jedi themselves. Not bad politics. :)

    Interesting discussion we're having, btw. :D
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