george just aint as hip as he used to be,hey it happens.

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by DarthAbdul-jabbar, Aug 13, 2002.

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  1. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    MINORITY REPORT was better for me because it:

    a) Had a story. It has a twist in the plot.
    b) Was well thought out and written
    c) It had a climax
    d) The acting was exceptional
    e) The sci-fi ideas were imaginative
    f) The sets were well designed.
    g) The directing was good
    h) Didnt rely on CGI overload, but when CGI was used I didnt notice.
    i) Perhaps most important of all: I would have to see this again to gain more information of the little subtleties in the film. For instance, I detected a distinct homage to Trauffauts FARENHEIT 451. Lots to gain from repeat viewings.

    Clones:

    a) The directing was hamfisted; ranging from OK to bad, with the occasional glimpses of excellent (Clones landing, Anakins shadow changing, Corruscant chase). The bad is very evident in "talky" scenes where the character stand in a line and read the lines like they are taking a screen test. Lucas does not communicate well with actors.
    b)The Special effects saturate the entire picture and are not always believable. Some are good, but then you would expect that at least some are when there are literally 100's to choose from. e.g the seismic charge sound effect.
    c)The acting was, for me, really hammy, cheesy call it what you like. I don't know if this is how it is intended as some may argue but for me it didnt work out. In particular the "love story" is something I'd rather forget. I think Natalie Portman is the worst. McGregor seems to handle it better. Christensen is hit and miss, the good being his tusken slaughter scene which I thought was really good. The bad being Monotone recitements; Once again, this is all down to the directing (see part a).
    d)The movie has Speed thrills (a good part of the film). e.g. end battle, corruscant chase.
    e) The sets are UN-IMAGINATIVE. There are no cool ideas in this film either, as in previous Star Wars movies e.g "Bacta tank", "I AM YOUR FATHER". We get repeated ideas, albeit inferior versions of At-AT's, bionic arm etc.
    f) The story is bad, boring even. Basically, "fill in missing parts between I - IV". Where the hell are the SURPISES? It is way to formulaic.
    g) I would watch this again because of the "thrill" element that is in all the Star Wars flicks and also because Star Wars was so important to me when I was 5 years old; but I find the film way to simplistic for any other reasons.

    So All in all I rate Minority Report alot higher than Clones in my best of list for 2002.

    Spiderman, I havent seen because I don't care for it.
  2. waheennay Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2000
    star 4
    You can nitpick over the best movies. I'm aware of a lot of the problems people have with it and I share a few but I still think AOTC was really good.
  3. Import_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6
    Attack fo the Clones has a convoluted story. Its characters are dull, resort to cliches at all times and are not at all fun. The actors don't even try to do something genuinely pleasing with what they have and churn out amateur performances that makes Jake Lloyd's in TPM look and feel like Olivier...

    (You know the rest)

    Very insightful, AL...No one can accuse you of just replying with one-liners like "I thought the movie was good" or "It's George's film. If you don't like it, watch something else." Okay, that was two-lines.

    The fact is, when members here point out why "lasers weren't used when the clones ran out of rockets," or "how Padme knew where Dooku's hangar was," or how someone can devote an entire thread to the "Best and Worst of AOTC" or "Most embarrassing" moments...then AOTC is SIMPLY not as good as what people make it out to be.

    A movie, even a bad crappy one like Mr. Deeds or Master of Disguise (GOOD GRIEF) can be entertaining, but when a NUMBER of flaws like those spotted in AOTC are pointed out--then it's simply NOT GOOD FILMMAKING.

    One of my friends at school saw AOTC at midnight on May 16...and he hated it (with the exception of Natalie Portman). He pointed out flaws in the sound design, thought the story was stupid, and complained about the lack of blood in the most obvious scenes where there should have been some (another friend of mine hates PG-13 movies and felt AOTC would've been better if it had that rating). In fact, my friend bluntly referred to AOTC as "bad filmmaking." His exact words.

    And keep in mind me and my friends (both mentioned above) are in the film production program at Long Beach State (where Spielberg graduated May 31, btw).

    So people CAN enjoy films like Episode 2...but it's really foolish to criticize people like AL or DrEvazan for bringing up good points about why the movie really may not be all that.

    ...

    THAT SAID...No one will ever convince me of liking A.I.'s ending. EVER.



    EDIT: I like bold. :)

    EDIT #2: I hate posting near the end of the page. So new post.
  4. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    c) It [Minority Report] had a climax

    I have to take issue with your criticism of AOTC not having a climax Yodaschum. I agree that AOTC did not have a climax, but that's because it's only part of the story. The climax will be in Ep3, like GL said in the last SW Insider. I think that a lot of people just don't like the fact that GL is making the PT like a three act play. I think they would rather have six SW movies that were less interconnected, but stand-alone movies, like the James Bond series.
  5. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    "The story is bad, boring even. Basically, "fill in missing parts between I - IV"."

    yodaschum, thats the silliest thing I've ever heard. Of course Lucas is filling in some of the gaps. When one tends to hear the word Prequel one tends to think before. Would you prefer the new Movies to have nothing to do with the old movies? [face_plain]
  6. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    import - in all fairness, movies like mr. deeds and master of disguise are made purely to be funny and to entertain, without any goal of delivering some sort of serious psychological resonance as lucas has set out to do. he was afraid that people would like his movies less because of the dark themes, but in actuality those were the parts that people seemed to enjoy more about the movie.
    he has created an unfulfilling love story that ultimately only serves the purpose of bringing luke and leia into existence, where one scene of passion and yielding to temptation would have sufficed to both serve the plot and convince us more fully of the fallacy of their relationship.

    that said, i agree that AI's ending was horrible, as well as the rest of the movie. the beginning reminded me of bicentennial man (which is not a bad thing, but a mark of unoriginality) and the best cinematography in the movie was the scene that mirrored the best cinematography of ET - slanted moonlight through trees - great the first time, played out the second time.
  7. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    Minority Report was good, but it didn't know when to end, a problem more and more common with Spielberg's films these days. One thing Lucas does know is pacing.

    And AL, while I agree with some of your points, all of your criticisms could also be directed at TPM, and on a much bigger scale. The idea that TPM had superior acting, story, or action to AOTC is ridiculous, and most critics and fans would agree with me.
  8. CountBakufu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2001
    star 2
    hmmm...It always annoys me when people try to imply that their personal opinion stands as the gospel.

    Most people I have talked to really enjoyed the film with a couple of complaints but still managed to see it a few times.

    I have my own issues with the film but no more than with any other Star Wars film. AOTC is a great addition to the saga and will be recognized as such in time, as with all great films. I really enjoyed AOTC, probably just as much as any SW film.

    When trying to critique a SW film it should be dealt within the other SW films...that's the most appropriate IMO. I, as well as others, could post just as many examples from the OT that folks are complaining in the PT and have been done so in numerous threads on these boards.

    Your points are taken but just as much as you are not going to be swayed into liking AOTC, we are not going to be convinced by you that the film is inferior.
  9. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    "And AL, while I agree with some of your points, all of your criticisms could also be directed at TPM, and on a much bigger scale.
    The idea that TPM had superior acting, story, or action to AOTC is ridiculous, and most critics and fans would agree with me."

    if this is true, homer, then why did more people line up to see episode 1 than 2.
    i had to wait in line to buy advance tickets for a packed opening night showing the phantom menace.
    i went to attack of the clones on opening day with five other people in the theater.
  10. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    zeekveerko, your opinions are noted, but rewording the same hackneyed arguments that we've heard countless times already doesn't magically make them new and fresh. Now unless you have anything new to say that hasn't been beaten into the ground by an endless stream of "highborw" film critics who think that repeating the same crap over and over again somehow makes it true, please give it a rest.
  11. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    durwood - thank you for you intelligent contribution to the discussion at hand. [face_plain]
    i guess in the end it's easier to tell someone to shut up than to dispute them intelligently.
  12. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    Zeekverko, How come every time you lose an arguement or have nothing to say you to start ranting about people not posting intelligently enough? I've heard that comeback from you dozens of times and it doesn't hold any water. This is not a scholarly message board and if you think it is you're definately no scholar.
  13. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    Just a couple things to say about these two points:
    e) The sets are UN-IMAGINATIVE. There are no cool ideas in this film either, as in previous Star Wars movies e.g "Bacta tank", "I AM YOUR FATHER". We get repeated ideas, albeit inferior versions of At-AT's, bionic arm etc.

    Kamino has to be one of the most imaginative and cool things I've seen. I was almst literally breathless watching the Kamino scenes. They were well-designed, beautifully done, and were some of my favorite designs I've ever seen.

    f) The story is bad, boring even. Basically, "fill in missing parts between I - IV". Where the hell are the SURPISES? It is way to formulaic.

    You should be happier in Ep III, then. There will be a bunch of surprises - the Jedi are killed, Anakin falls to the Dark Side, Palpatine is revealed to be a Sit Lord, the Republic collapses - oh, wait, they aren't surprises because we've seen the OT and we know what's going to happen. For the average moviegoer who hasn't seen the OT, this is all new. And a lot of it is all new for SW fans as well. I was continually surprised, not huge major things like "I am your father", but little things that added up: "We've been expecting you", Anakin losing his arm, stormtroopers are clones, Dooku is in league with Sidious, etc.
  14. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    Good God- WHAT DID PEOPLE EXPECT?

    Of COURSE it is filling in the gaps! Duh!

    [face_plain]
  15. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    swfan2002 - i have not "loosed" any arguments, for one thing (at least not in this case), and neither have i made any personal attacks on durwood or yourself. i agree this is no scholarly forum, but it's also not here to verbally abuse people, and vent your frustrations of real life out on people by saying their opinions are stupid and therefore they should shut up and go somewhere else.
    i try to keep my words civil, despite your obvious lack of respect for me and my opinions.
    my point is, if you don't like what i have to say, either ignore it, or think of a civil way to counter.
    you're right. if intelligence is to much to ask for, how about a little civility?
    i have said nothing personal against you or durwood, but for some reason, you both feel the need to repeatedly verbally attack me personally, and anybody else who disagrees with your opinions.
    whatever.
    it's your life.
    keep sending out those rays of negativity, if you enjoy it so much.
  16. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    i try to keep my words civil, despite your obvious lack of respect for me and my opinions.

    Why are you being so sensitive?
  17. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    I wonder what people expected from the prequels, I guess some wanted to know the Young Han Solo tales not the tale of Anakins fall.
    Maybe that would have been "cool, darker and serious" for them [face_plain]
  18. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    I'm sure they'd still complain, it seems to be their nature. Moving on in life must be difficult for them. :(
  19. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    swfan2002 - if you continously feel the need to address me with off-topic comments and questions, by all means, spare the rest of the forum members and send me a private message.
  20. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    SWFan2002,

    "Why are you being so sensitive?"

    Well, people tend to get that way when they are personally attacked for expressing their opinions. If you disagree with his arguments, either ignore them or come up with a response defining your position.

    Many of you here are starting to respond like children do when there arguments don't hold water, they lash out with name calling and start poking-fun. I would suggest that while none of us are scholars, maybe we could behave like reasonably intelligent people.
  21. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    People who are intelligent don't waste their time on a message board about a movie they didn't like. ;)
  22. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    From what I have read on the last few pages of this post, his view point seems very developed and rational. Not that I agree with every point, but it has been laid out in a direct and concise manner. If you would like to resort to personal attacks regarding another poster, that is your choice to make, but you must realize that it speaks volumes about your intellect to not be able to counter a intelligent post without "slamming" someone.

    This is supposed to be fun.
  23. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    Oh, so now you're going to IMPLY that I'm not intelligent? How original ;)
  24. I_WAS_JUST_BANNED Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2002
    star 1
    if this is true, homer, then why did more people line up to see episode 1 than 2.
    i had to wait in line to buy advance tickets for a packed opening night showing the phantom menace.


    Two words: Spider-Man. TPM didn't have anywhere near the competition that AOTC did this year.

    i went to attack of the clones on opening day with five other people in the theater.

    What time did the show start?
    If this is indeed true, which I sincerely doubt, what are you complaining about? I wish I could have gotten in on opening day, but ALL of the theaters near me were sold out.
  25. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    No, to imply would be an indirect statement. I think my opinion was made pretty clear, and it was not just directed at you. Many people here are getting a little overzealous.


    My last post in this topic, please feel free to attack me as you will. You will notice that I did not include a smiley face after my post.
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