george just aint as hip as he used to be,hey it happens.

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by DarthAbdul-jabbar, Aug 13, 2002.

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  1. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    BANNED - yes, it is true, and no, i'm not complaining, i'm refuting a point made. i was actually quite satisfied to be able to kick up my feet and enjoy the movie. admittedly, it was early in the day.
    i don't think spider-man is a good qualifier for keeping people out of star wars films. i did experience the same type of waiting in line for spidey as i did for the phantom menace, but its fire quickly flickered and faded with the onset of the latest star wars installment.

    obhave - i appreciate your words in my defense.

    i find it hard to understand why people would get so upset over my opinons of a movie. i share almost nothing in common with some of my closest friends when it comes to the arts, but our discussions over them have never escalated to heated exchanges. we simply agree to peacefully disagree, and acknowledge that there's more to life than movies and other entertainments (though not much).
  2. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    he has created an unfulfilling love story that ultimately only serves the purpose of bringing luke and leia into existence, where one scene of passion and yielding to temptation would have sufficed to both serve the plot and convince us more fully of the fallacy of their relationship.

    I disagree with this. I think the love story worked very well, and I appreciate it much more than I do the typical "boy gets girl" or standard "teenage sex" love stories in most films.

    Here's why:

    1) Anakin's relationship to Padme is more than just sexual attraction. This is proven by the fact that Anakin had feelings for Padme in TPM when he was only 9, and thus pre-pubescent.

    2) Padme really appreciates Anakin's honesty about his feelings, as is shown in the fireplace scene. She spends most of here time around phony politicians and bureaucrats. Anakin's honesty about something as personal as HIS own feelings is extremely refreshing to her.

    3) Anakin in TPM wanted one thing-- to be a Jedi. In AOTC, he is torn between his desire to be a Jedi and his love for Padme. Ultimately, he does not choose one or the other, but chooses both. The results of his greed will be seen in Ep3.
  3. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    "if this is true, homer, then why did more people line up to see episode 1 than 2.
    i had to wait in line to buy advance tickets for a packed opening night showing the phantom menace.
    i went to attack of the clones on opening day with five other people in the theater."


    Zeek, what has this got to do with anything? People can't dislike a film if they never even see it! Less people saw AOTC than TPM, but in my experience more of those people enjoyed it, because AOTC was a much better film.
    I realised I wasn't the only one who felt so on opening night when the crowd burst into spontaneous applause at the end. That almost never happens in the U.K. and it certainly didn't happen for TPM, despite the greater anticipation for that film.
  4. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    i see your point, swfan2002, and especially in the third part, your statement is compelling. perhaps unfulfilling is not the word for the love scene, as it does exemplify anakin's desire to have it all.

    one major point that bothers me of the movie is that i did not see anakin's transition from an innocent little kid to a cocky and arrogant adult. from his first scene to his last in aotc he was nothing but arrogant, cocky, and overall not a very likeable person.

    darthhomer - previews have a tendency to evoke very similar reactions as the actual films they represent. where some people were put off by yoda pulling out his saber, others were convinced that it would be the best star wars movie ever because of it. i have little doubt that their opinions remained the same upon actual viewing. however, i'm also sure that some people didn't go see clones because they didn't like menace.
    i guess i'm part of the vast minority that likes menace better, but maybe over time that will change.
  5. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    i find it hard to understand why people would get so upset over my opinons of a movie.

    My daddy always said, "It's not what you say but how you say it." And you have acknowledged in other threads that some may find your elitest attitude "obnoxious" while in the same breath claiming that your mere opinions were in fact the truth.

    Change your attitude and you may see people respond to you differently.
  6. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    "My daddy always said, "It's not what you say but how you say it."

    there is wisdom to your daddy's words.

    "And you have acknowledged in other threads that some may find
    your elitest attitude "obnoxious" while in the same breath claiming that your mere opinions were in fact the truth.

    Change your attitude and you may see people respond to you differently."

    interesting that you consider me an elitist.
    you obviously have me mistaken with somebody else.
    if you would like to continue to make unsubstatiated claims about my personality i'll tell you the same thing i told swfan2002. take it to the pm's.

    forgive me for not including the words "in my opinion" with every post. you were obviously able to discern my opinions from fact, so perhaps the redundant statement wasn't necessary....
    i have no attitude, except when people *ahem-you* repeatedly fill the boards with rudeness.
    it is you, DURWOOD, who continuously makes personal remarks in-between your very few relevant posts.
  7. Tyranosour Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2002
    star 1
    Regarding the CGI bit, don't forget GL is at the forefront of DLP technology. Why do I say this - well, DLP is the sh** for home theaters, and now movie theaters. I saw AOTC on a normal projector and on the DLP, and the DLP version looks fantastic, so GL is using his technology (and Texas Instruments) to showcase how incredible CGI can look. It was silky smooth, and looked fantastic.

    I take it DarthAbdul-Jabbar never saw the film on DLP. If you had, you wouldn't complain about the CGI, as everything looked so good and realistic it makes for a much better movie experience.

    Let's not forget that the film was also filmed using Sony's mulit-hundred-thousand dollar HD cameras. If that's not hip I don't know what is...

    So you think he's not hip even though he's at the forefront of CGI with his company ILM which does FX for many-a-movie, co-developed the DLP technology with Texas Instruments, promotes DLP to theaters and for home use, does digital transfers of his movies to DVD, owns THX, and is responsible for an entire galaxy...

    Maybe you're just not up to speed, or dare I say it, "hip" to GL's level of "hipness"
  8. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "I truly... deeply... love you... because the script says I do." -Quixotic-Sith
  9. Import_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6
    Where's Quixotic-Sith so I can flame him? :p
  10. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    Stupid joke-making, opinion-having, no-good, BASHERS!!!!!!

    Edit: oops! forgot to put a :p
  11. GriffZ Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2001
    star 6
  12. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    So who just posted in "The Bashers' Sanctuary Strikes Back" Zeekveerko? 8-}
  13. Import_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6
    Speaking of the Basher's Sanctuary:

    The AOTC forum is definitely a bit on the bent side. The "Gush-stapo" is definitely out in force over there, and I've seen an awful lot of people catch X amount of grief for simply stating opinions that weren't as glowing as people insisted they be. I don't post much over there for that reason... and I like AOTC.

    I agree, divergent opinions are necessary for any sort of meaningful discussion. Otherwise it degenerates into

    "That was cool!"

    "Sure was!"

    "I think it was even MORE than cool... it RAWKED!"

    "Yeah, it rawked."

    "Yeah, I thought it was cool."

    "Just cool? Not good enough! BASHER!! HERETIC!!!"


    Gush-tapo... Funny. :) :p
  14. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    "...by the way...what does LOL mean?"


    [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]
  15. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    zeekveerko said:

    interesting that you consider me an elitist.
    you obviously have me mistaken with somebody else.


    Please accept my apologies. I was confusing you with somebody else who uses a very similiar icon.
  16. Import_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6
  17. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    are you serious, durwood?

    after all that, just a case of mistaken identity... [face_laugh]
    i wasn't aware that someone else had the same icon as me...

    apology accepted, capt- i mean, durwood.

    by the way, i love brownies with nuts, but i hate nuts. :p
  18. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Well, not the exact same icon, just an icon with a blue background and a couple of people close together. It's not identical, but it's close enough that they're easily mistaken in a heat of the moment quick glance.
  19. DarthAbdul-jabbar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 1
    yes tyranasour, i have seen clones in dlp, 6 times infact and thought it was amazing,but that has nothing to do with the fact that this new film lacks.al and dr e took the words right out my mouth

    .everyone has different tastes,some of us are older than some others.im not a real big sci fi buff or a comic book reader or anything like that,maybe some of you guys are and thats why some of your opinions are the way they are and theres nothing wrong with that,maybe some of you out there know nothing about the sportsworld and just love science fiction,or have a love for matrix or lotr or spiderman batman whatever i could give a care less about those movies.for me its always been about star wars and for any long time fan of this greatest saga to gush and gush about episode two like it comes anywhere near the originals, i feel is someone who dosnt understand the true essence of the original saga to begin with.ep 1 and 2 were definatly enjoyable for me but in areas,alot of areas were substandard compared with the originals.

    anyone who dosnt feel at least a little bit uneasy about the p t so far i would guess are lower down on the totam pole as far as the true sons of the star wars saga.

    period.

  20. Kryatt_Dragon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2002
    star 2
    Actually, in some ways I think Lucas is trying to be too hip [face_plain]

    I feel that one of the reasons he decided to go with an all-CG Yoda is because he was afraid that a puppet would look to retro. Instead of using real clonetroopers when they're perfectly viable he uses CG clonetroopers. Instead of retaining the old things that come across better he jumps on the CG bandwagon just because it's the newest gadget and it's oh so convenient. Don't want to hire real extras...just employ a CG abomination. Everything the guy does is either for convenience or for the sake of spectacle and flesh and blood actors are used like mere pixels in an arcade game.

    It's the essence of a true technician rather than an artist.

    Kershner is an artist.

    I don't think George Lucas would know what art was if it hit him on the head...at least it doesn't seem that way.

    What I get when I watch the prequels is that special effects are more important and perfomances are secondary. In Lucas world something is done because it's either convenient or supposedly it looks cool and if the actors aren't happy with it...tough sh@%! Gushers and neophytes can disagree but I think there are facts to support this:

    Carrie Fisher, SW Insider #59

    The Empire Strikes Back was much more a film about people. It had more of an ambiance than Star Wars. While Star Wars was an introduction, Empire really developed the relationships of the main characters. Kershner required that everything in a scene 'work' beforehand. We rehearsed a lot more on Empire. Kershner was was always willing to talk over this or that little bit of a scene to make it more comfortable for the actors (implicit jab at you know who).


    I rest my case :cool:
  21. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    Kershner is an artist.

    I don't think George Lucas would know what art was if it hit him on the head...at least it doesn't seem that way.



    ROFL, I've YET to see the scene in Episode V that shows Kershner's "artistic" abilities.
  22. Oakessteve Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 9, 1999
    star 6
    Well, you must be watching Empire Strikes Back with your eyes closed. Just watch the carbon freezing sequence, the vision in the cave, and the start of the lightsabre duel, and you'll understand what is meant by that. Irvin Kershner used lighting in a wonderful way to create meaning and feeling, and of all the Star Wars films so far, I think in terms of creating feelings and emotions with lighting, Empire Strikes Back excells in that area, closely followed by Attack of the Clones. The trouble with The Phantom Menace in my opinion is that the direction was very predestrian, particularly as George was so unwilling to move the camera (infact, back in the seventies, Steven Spielberg and Martin Scorsese would often tease George about this), and because of that, it failed to engage me with the story, and relate and identify with the characters. However, I am very happy to say that George has overcome this problem with Attack of the Clones, and is beginning to use the camera to tell the story, rather than just to make it look as if it captured all these events going on by accident, and because of that, I am very much looking forward to Episode III.
  23. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    *opens eyes*

    Nope, its still the same film I've seen two million times.

    By the way, just because I don't agree that ESB was "artistic" does not give you or anyone else the right to comment about my "filmwatching" abilities or anything like that.

    I realize that ESB is a fan fave, and for good reason. It is shot extraordinarily well, it DOES have good acting, it has some really awesome and well planned shots, and yeah- the lighting is amazing.

    But IMO that does not make it "artistic." Do I see where everyone is coming from though? Of course.
  24. Oakessteve Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 9, 1999
    star 6
    Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree, but in my opinion, that's what makes a film artistic. But what do I know? Quite a bit, I would hope.
  25. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    he jumps on the CG bandwagon

    Um, Lucas is the CG bandwagon. He's not jumping on anything, he's at the forefront of innovation.

    Kershner was was always willing to talk over this or that little bit of a scene to make it more comfortable for the actors (implicit jab at you know who).

    I assume the "implicit jab" comment was your own editorial addition to Ms. Fisher's quote.

    Dozens of actors have said what a joy it is to work with Lucas. Sure, there have been one or two naysayers over the years, but you'll find that with any director.

    I'm just getting really sick of the "Lucas is not an actor's director" misrepresentation that keeps getting rehashed.
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