Saga George Lucas and Qui Gon Jinn

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Eternity85, Feb 19, 2013.

  1. Eternity85 Jedi Grand Master

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    Jan 24, 2008
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    Qui Gon Jinn was never rewarded with a seat on the council, because he went his own way. Do any of you think that Qui Gon in TPM is a reference to Lucas himself and the lack of recognition he's received throughout his long career, mainly because he broke free from the shackles of the movie industry and went his own way. Remember that Lucas has also done a lot for film in general, it was not just SW.

    I know he was awarded with an AFI Lifetime Achievement award in 2005, but he started writing the script for TPM long before this.

    I guess the industry moguls did not appreciate his independence: It's a certain way you do things and if you're not one of us, then we will not recognise you as one either. I think there is something to this.


    Obi-Wan Kenobi: "If you would just follow the Code, you would be on the Council. They will not go along with you this time."

    Qui Gon Jinn: "You still have much to learn, my young apprentice".


    Anyways, I thought it was an interesting observation and something that might be fun to discuss.
    Last edited by Eternity85, Feb 19, 2013
  2. Alexrd Force Ghost

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    Jul 7, 2009
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    No. I never saw George as a person who's interested in personal recognition or fame. Although he has been awarded and recognized for his work, and deservedly so.

    Ironically, that could be applied to a good part of the fandom.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Feb 19, 2013
  3. Eternity85 Jedi Grand Master

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    I agree. I don't think Lucas is that kind of a person. But it could still be a message to people that the industry should be more open minded and not be so conservative. Just like the council should have included Qui Gon instead of excluding him. It's a tough business and they are all in this togheter. The same thing goes for Lucas and the way he has always pushed towards the limits of what can be done in film. Many people did not like him for that and in the beginning they really thought he would destroy the art of film making. This is briefly mentioned in the new documentary Side by Side, if anyone have seen it.
  4. Alexrd Force Ghost

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    Sure, you can interpret it that way. I'm just saying that I doubt there was any correlation with its origin.

    The Episode II DVD also has a featurette about it. But that's more about film vs digital for shooting a movie. Still, if it wasn't for him, the digital revolution would never happen.
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  5. hear+soul Force Ghost

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    I'm not trying to be a downer, but he only directed 3 movies (prequels aside). Certainly he had a huge impact on film, but how would he be recognized besides something like a lifetime achievement award? I think he gets a lot of credit.
  6. Ingram_I Jedi Grand Master

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    I can see it. Sort of. I agree with Alexrd that George Lucas has never been one to vie for industry acceptance or critical embrace, but then again neither does Qui-Gon seem interested in appealing to the Council norms. I doubt the character’s maverick spirit came out of thin air. What’s more important is that Qui-Gon never takes an outright negative stance against his peers or shows any hint of contempt, but rather a Zen philosophy to the whole ordeal: "I shall do what I must, Obi-Wan", he answers coolly. The same goes for Lucas, for the most part. Here’s a guy who’s spoken honestly about the hardships of both studio indifference/interference and the intense passions and preconceived notions of a, uh, less than happy fanbase. But never once has he outright slandered anyone nor have his actions as a filmmaker seemed driven by spite, excluding the occasional wink and irreverent tease here and there. He's always simply done what feels honest to him as an artist, shrugging away the rest with a similar unaffected demeanor.

    It is funny, if not telling, to think that Qui-Gon is the only one open-minded enough to initially give Jar Jar and little Ani a chance. Huh.
    Last edited by Ingram_I, Feb 20, 2013
  7. fett 4 Chosen One

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    Despite Liam Neeson as the best thing in the film, for me Qui-gon Jin was argubly the most unesescary character of TPM should have been combined with Obi-wan Kenobi to form a new character .... called Obi-wan Kenobi :D
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  8. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

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    No.
  9. Valairy Scot Chosen One

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    "Are you brainless?" Sure, open minded...


    ...though I agree anyone can have an off moment.
  10. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
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    This I agree with.

    The original script of TPM had Obi-Wan in the Qui-Gon role, (in fact the original script by George is better then what we got on the big screen IMO).
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  11. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

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    Thats because Jar Jar almost got him killed. An off moment is an understatement to say the least! :p
  12. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

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    To me, Qui-Gon is the finest person and character in the entire Saga (and one of the top in the whole universe). He is truly the perfect Jedi.
    He understands the force better than anyone except maybe Yoda, but is not bound to "traditions" like Yoda is - understanding the spirit of the force rather than just the rules of it.

    If any character deserves a spinoff or a origins story, its him.
  13. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
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    Star Wars: Taken

    "I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have credits. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long training. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my Padawan go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you."

    I'd watch that.
  14. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    Wait, doesn't that sorta happen in one of the Jedi Apprentice stories??
    (speaking of which, Jedi Apprentice would make a GREAT television series!)
  15. Ingram_I Jedi Grand Master

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    All true, except ...I would contend that Luke picks up where Qui-Gon left off to become the greatest Jedi of them all. He has his fathers power but by Episode VI he forges his own wisdom and becomes a freestyle Jedi of sorts.

    Luke Skywalker is just the best. I'm gonna be just like him when I grow up!
    Last edited by Ingram_I, Feb 21, 2013
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  16. Cryogenic Chosen One

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    Jul 20, 2005
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    Qui-Gon was very brittle to begin with, first admonishing his own apprentice with a hint of annoyance, then brandishing the TF as "cowards", looking slant-eyed at Obi-Wan when he made his first quip at Qui-Gon's expense ("The negotiations were short"), and finally telling Jar Jar to get lost, before casually slamming him for being "brainless" (or posing it as rhetorical, needling question; like the kind Obi-Wan later poses to him over his perception of Anakin's non-danger on Coruscant). At this point in the film, Qui-Gon is more like an anti-hero, or an outright villain. That even a sophisticated Jedi Master cannot seem to tell the difference between a person idly blocking another's way because they are in someway not "all there" (which still wouldn't warrant a harsh rebuke) or because they are ****-scared and would naturally freeze on the spot (and Jar Jar is not the sort to actually run away easily) is quite disturbing; and in my opinion, must be taken as condemnation of the Jedi Order more generally. Fortunately, Qui-Gon softens after he seems to reason or intuit he is dealing with a good-hearted child-like individual who was merely frightened by a strange and terrifying event and means no harm. I tried to delve into this with my new Jar Jar thread: http://boards.theforce.net/threads/thinkin-bout-jar-jar.50009174/ Qui-Gon yields, finally bending like a willow in the breeze, if only a bit, and that says something positive about his meeting/collision with Jar Jar, I think.
    Last edited by Cryogenic, Feb 21, 2013
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  17. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

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    I say Qui-Gon understood the force better than Yoda, considering how he discovered the secret. He is the forgotten Shepard of the saga. The one who got the chess pieces moving.
  18. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

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    Apr 16, 2008
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    I would tend to agree with you, but Luke didn't/doesn't have NEARLY the wealth of wisdom that Qui-Gon was able to learn in the Jedi Temple and as Padawan to Dooku. Which is why Luke is so easily prone to failure. Everything he knows he has to learn by trail & error, having no one to learn from.
  19. DRush76 Force Ghost

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    Jan 25, 2008
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    I disagree. Without Qui-Gon, there would be no starting point for Obi-Wan's character development . . . or a starting point for the story development of Obi-Wan and Anakin's relationship.


    I disagree with this as well. Learning a wealth of wisdom from the Jedi Order did not make Qui-Gon an ideal or flawless character. Nor did it stop characters like Yoda and Obi-Wan from making their share of major mistakes.
    Last edited by DRush76, Feb 21, 2013
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  20. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

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    OK, argue that, then.
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  21. Cryogenic Chosen One

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    Forgotten shepherd. I like that.

    Unfortunately, Qui-Gon sort of took himself out from the saga by becoming uncannily aggressive to Maul, seeming to do battle on autopilot, then continuing to move forward, unrepentantly, under his own steam. This farce of a tragedy is mirrored in the Anakin action strand: Anakin in the cockpit, which itself is traceable back to Qui-Gon.

    Dare I say it, but Qui-Gon also seems to become distracted in a couple of places, like at the fruit stand on Tatooine, and when he's battling Maul before Maul delivers the fatal blow? He could have done with swallowing his own medicine. "Keep your concentration here and now, where it belongs." Oh, Jinny.

    On the other hand, Qui-Gon is a powerful, upright, unshakeable, "white knight" type of a figure, who nonetheless has understandable, humbling, human flaws. This makes him infinitely arresting. And the laser gate sequence where he patiently kneels and begins to meditate, if still engaging in a bit of "I'm so much better than you and now I'm going to show you" pre-second-round bravado with Maul, is one of my favourite moments ever. If you get annoyed at something, try conjuring that image; I find it surprisingly soothing, helping to ease my upset and get me back on track.
    Last edited by Cryogenic, Feb 22, 2013
  22. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

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    Thinking about Qui-Gon meditating is like six months of therapy.
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  23. Cryogenic Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 5
    The way I see it, this saga can do one of two things -- and two things only -- for therapists generally:

    1) Put them out of business.

    2) Give them an endless supply of fresh patients: nerds obsessed with space movies.

    The thing that contains the cure also contains the poison. Ah. 8-}
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  24. Joe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2012
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    Where can one locate the original script? Or is it in the vault, and we have only heard about it.
  25. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

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    I'd like to know that myself - it's not at the Starkiller script site (they've only got an early version of the shooting script of TPM), but zombie references it heavily in TSHOSW. I think parts of the script & summaries may have appeared in various publications.