ST George Lucas and the Mystery of the Treatment

This isn't really news. If Disney didn't see something about GL's treatments that they liked I doubt they would've spent $4 Billion to acquire the Star Wars brand. How much they kept and how much they reworked is something else entirely.

 

I get that Pro, but the guy is a businessman, you know? Holding cards close to the chest and bluffing is all part of the business side of STAR WARS. Also, aside from telling fans that six was the end of the line, I'm trying to remember other significant contradictory statements.

Am I meant to understand that some here believe that Lucas hasn't suffered the slings and arrows of outrageous detractors? If so, I think it quite disingenuous to accuse those who wish to find something of George Lucas' ideas in the ST story (which I think we will) of being 'hysterical' while portraying Lucas critics as reasonable and measured. Let's face it, there are loonies on both sides of that coin. Personally, I respect and enjoy reading moderates on both sides of that debate.

 

Right, and there are those who delight in the misfortune of others. There are some in this thread who berate all those who wish to see some of Lucas' ideas in the ST while claiming to be moderate in their views on such. This is disingenuous, because I've read plenty Lucas 'bashing' around here. Yes, some lack discernment and patience, but it is no offense to hope for certain scenarios while we await new information.

 

If it were simply people wanting to "hope for certain scenarios while we await new information", there'd be no issue. But it's not.

And frankly, it's boring reading the "I'm not interested in this movie" screeds for the millionth time. What use are those kinds of posts?

 

No use and the only thing to do:

1. *Ignore* button?

2. I stick to reading certain posters or at least limit the scope.

There's way too much to read in here. I loved the back and forth the other day in the debate on the paternity of Rey. Great reading.

 

I accept that. I'd add, however, that the way the initial posts are framed is usually combative in the first place (i.e. "baiting"), not that that's an excuse.

 

oh yeah, well your mother was a wookie and your father smelled of trash compactor.

 

Over a few movie treatments? All of the various Star Wars licenses are where the billions' worth of value is including the right to make new films. GL having some treatments to throw in certainly doesn't hurt and obviously you read the hell out them. But if they don't work for whatever reason you can find writers easily enough. They would have needed someone to write the actual scripts even if they had used GL's outlines. Even writing from scratch would be an almost negligible concern cost-wise.

Even if there were no treatments I can't see how Disney wouldn't have been all over this. They're basically the perfect company to maximize returns on a purchase like this. $4b for a franchise that's brought in somewhere between $20-$40b all told over 35 years (and with decade+ gaps without any live action films at all in there). Not even any competition on the deal. They're probably still high-fiving over the deal today without a care in the world over any tossed treatments.

 

Forget the treatment, all I wanna know is.... did George think up the name Snoke? And if he did, has he apologized yet?

 

Typical friend of a friend thing here, but since the friends boyfriend is connected to Disney and his info is usually spot on take this for what it's worth: Lucas' original story did have the search for Luke and Luke's lightsaber at its core, but, as has been reported, the Jedi were younger. It was also a 'hot mess', according to these sources, as if written by someone with head trauma. Totally terrible...like a bad CSI episode.

He really made is sound as if a bullet were dodged.

 

Did people actually read the whole Vanity Fair article? It gives a much better perspective on many of these issues (through quotes of the actual people involved, not through speculation of the journalist). It really beats blind speculation to actually read these things.

 

Yes, we did (or some of us did).

hazydavy - regardless of how accurate that is, I suspect search for Luke and the saber element have been two constants throughout the development process.

 

I believe so as well. Lucas came up with "the search for Luke" idea originally. I doubt very much that Abrams and Kasdan would turn the page entirely, write from scratch completely. Having those deadlines from Disney to deal with too, most professionals would freak out too, at least a bit. They are setting up a first chapter for a whole new trilogy as well of course. The logistics of the story, the "no compromise" attitude for filmmakers at this level, and at the same time dealing with foundations layered out from the Lucasfilm Storygroup, and the commercial aspects and pressure from Disney. You just can not start all over in such a short time ahead of pre production. I am 100% sure there are George Lucas footprints in there. If it was Lucas idea to just have Luke turning up at the end of TFA, i am sure this is also representing the qualities of Lucas as more of a visionary, looking at the broader strokes, Luke will show up in Episode 8 and 9 ( maybe), and this is the way Lucas is watching over his generational saga, everyone important would get some attention. His treatments might have been a mess still, and it needed a different approach to it, and someone to step in and save it, or make it work, as a script ( Kasdan / Abrams)....

 

Or, not even an unsalvageable mess - even George's stories would have been developed, re-shaped and re-worked as part of the normal process to script.

 

Yeah - I have a friend of a friend who said it was great...

 

In the Vanity Fair article, it was presented as JJ Abrams' idea. He said was intrigued because he started to think about how he could make it a mystery whether Luke was alive, where everybody was, etc. I have little doubt that JJ Abrams let his imagination run free, as was reported. I also have no doubt that people invested in the production will try to pin any failed ideas on Lucas.

JJ Abrams and Kasdan were coming up with ideas well before the final rewrite. Sets were based on whatever they established in the many months before they wrote the script.

 

Luke being "missing" and some kind of search for him is such a radical, far out idea, I have to believe it originated from Lucas' treatment or at least Arndt's draft based on conversations with Lucas. The details I'm sure have evolved, but I just don't see Abrams swooping in and saying "Nah, we're are only seeing Luke at the very end." It seems like the kind of idea that would only come from the guy who first created Luke as a character because the original creator probably doesn't treat the character in the precious way that someone who grew up idolizing Star Wars might. I mean, just look at how Abrams discusses Ford/Solo...So much adoration.

Now, Abrams may have been the one to load more mystery into that concept (for instance, not allowing audiences to see Luke while the characters search for him...), but it feels like a Lucas idea to me.

 

It fits perfectly within JJ Abrams' thinking.


“I fully expected to gratefully pass on this movie,” Abrams said, describing his meeting with Kennedy. But he grew intrigued when she told him the picture was a blank canvas. Implicit questions tantalized him—“this idea,” he said, “of what’s happened in these past 30-something years. Where is Han Solo? What happened to Leia? Is Luke alive? These questions started to percolate, and I found myself thrown completely by this visceral hunger to be part of this world.” He added, “The logic of why it was the wrong thing was overruled for me by the emotion of it.

So. To the people who think JJ Abrams did not come up with the idea of everyone being separated over 30 years, I have two questions.
1) Why did George Lucas say it's not his story?
2) Why did JJ Abrams get excited when he realized he could make it a mystery what's happened to everyone in the 30 year gap?

 

The reporting that was incorrect and didn't seem to realize that Luke and Leia were teens?

What does this "mess" refer to? It could only be Arndt's script (which is just the norm for virtually any movie anyone takes over) The Alien 3 movie script was "terrible" until the new director and writers came in and "saved" it.

The point is that no one is really happy with a script until it's theirs.

The term of blank canvas is one that I think it overstated in most cases.

It's a blank canvas but parameters of what you can do are set down. It's still Star Wars VII. It's a generational saga. Luke, Leia, Han, Chewbacca and the droids were set. A confrontation between 2 sides was set. A search for Luke and new young heroes were set.

KK through Lucas and Disney had a basic raw plan of what the ST was going to be. This isn't a case where it was all George's vision from start to finish. Those days are gone. JJ was not signing up for the whole trilogy so if what he wanted to do and what she wanted didn't have a basic line then he wouldn't be hired.

It was not such a blank canvas that JJ would say. " I don't want any grand-children or the trio or anything like that and no space battles."

It's "blank" but you are still expected to paint a Star Wars picture that is Episode VII.

 

I think it's pretty explicit what was blank. JJ was able to decide for himself what happened to the characters, and was able to present it as a mystery, which is what got him excited. We could all write Star Wars Episode VII without having seen any of Lucas' notes, but it wouldn't be the same story. So either Episode VII is whatever the copyright holder publishes, or it was a rejected story by Lucas. the original author of a story called Star Wars: Episode VII. Or it was both. Or maybe it's what I write. Maybe my version of Episode VII is the real one. Each person will decide for themselves.

 

What's going on here? What's come to light?

 

Except he did read them and did read Arndt's script and did talk with George as KK and Kasdan did.

They know his outlines and we all know the difference between an outline, the drafts of a script, the shooting of the film, the editing and the final movie nevermind all the stages in-between all of those.

Look at Lucas' basic story for ROTJ and all the permutations it went through. The most basic elements like Vader kills the Emperor are still there but the journey to get there is very, very different.

I see no reason to think this isn't basically the same thing.

A search for Luke might find him in Lucas' version 20 minutes earlier.