ST George Lucas and the Mystery of the Treatment

I'm sure that was in his mind. But as a teenage kid watching it, I was much more invested in Luke's reaction to all of this. For me, the OT was and is the story of how Luke Skywalker became a Jedi Knight. I don't deny that some can see it as a continuation of Vader's story, and I won't say they're wrong. But that is not my experience of the films.

 

Of course we are more invested in Luke because, as Artoo-Dion alluded to, Luke is the audience eyes into a GFFA... and after all, Vader is the villain, so we're not going to be empathising with the evil/nasty cyborg. It's only when we start to have the wider context that Anakin's role becomes more key. It's Anakin/Vader who is felt across all the films (including, so it seems, the new ones). I think the point being debated is whether Lucas viewed Anakin's arc as the central narrative, and at what point (in his head as 'filmmaker'/'writer') did he make that choice and start building it into the story. My view, based on my interpretation, is he started to do that in Empire.

 

From the first time I saw Episode IV 30 years ago (I was 8) I have always been curious about Luke's father & Vader when Ben told that story to Luke. When the saga concluded (then) with Episode VI, it really has been about Vader's redemption for me, being told by following Luke's journey through it all. I like to look at the saga as the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker, through his own journey in the first three episodes, through his son in following three. And how his story influence the political state of the galaxy. I hope this new trilogy will still follow that, contnuing the story of Anakin/Vader (even as reference) through the journey of his grandchildren. From the last trailer it seems Vader is still important to the story, so that makes me happy and is looking forward to it.

 

I think you can certainly view it that way, but I don't see any specific evidence that Lucas began to see VADER'S story as the central arc at any time during the OT. For me, the story remains focused on Luke's journey.... the redemption of his father is the final test of that journey. Vader is an element of Luke's story, in my view, not the other way around.

But that is a point of view. Those growing up with the PT likely have a different perspective. To tie this to the topic at hand..... Lucas seems to have backed off the "Tragedy of Darth Vader" a bit of late, empahsizing that the story is about Vader, but also is children and grandchildren. As usual, Lucas chooses to emphasize whatever elements fit his goals at the time.

 

Considering that

Spoiler

JJ has said that TFA is about finding Luke and or answering the question of who is Luke Skywalker, I'm certain that Luke will be focused on quite extensively in the ST.

Luke is the only Jedi at the end of ROTJ. You really think Luke won't have his time to shine in the ST?
Rey and Finn will be the main people but without Luke doing stuff in the background, they probably won't be victorious.

 

LOL. Sorry, but the only double standard that's apparent here is the one on your side of the argument. The "it's like poetry. It rhymes," spiel was a joke because that Lucas quote was constantly used to defend GL's questionable decisions by basically saying that he's brilliant cuz he shot some scenes to look like ones from older movies. For instance, that "Ring Theory" garbage goes on and on about how the movies parallel each other and oh so symmetrical. Yet for all the text devoted to this theory, he doesn't do much to explain why this suddenly makes Lucas' prequels any good.

So, yeah. The double standard is on you and yours.

When JJ does it: What a hack! Just rehashing ships and imagery from the OT! Let's see something new and original, goddamnit!

When GL does it: It's like poetry. They rhyme!

 

Well its implicit as soon as he renamed Star Wars, 'A New Hope: Episode IV'... unless anyone seriously thinks he originally conceived of episodes I-III as being all about the adventures of baby Luke.

 

Come on, PJ - do you seriously expect us to believe that as you were watching the OT (before the PT were even a handwritten scrawl on a yellow legal pad) that you felt you were watching the redemption of Anakin Skywalker?

That perspective of course exists once the PT comes into play, but on 4 - 6 alone, without the PT in the picture, it's not the main perspective that story was told from originally.

 

I was probably too young to seriously consider anything but lightsabres and space battles when I first watched them, but YES, when I started watching the OT within its own context (as a teenager pre the SE and PT) I appreciated the wider context, which was clearly the journey of both Luke and Anakin through the OT... and given that Lucas had (I'm taking during production of the OT and not in the 90's) always talked about stories featuring a younger Obi-Wan and Anakin, I'd always imagined Anakin as being a pivotal character in that particular universe. So I'm not sure what the surprise is??? I'm reminded somewhat of when I was asked 'are you seriously suggesting that Deckard himself is supposed to be a replicant?'. It's how one interprets the information, both on screen and ancillary.

 

Hmm. Maybe. I think you're revising things a little but your Deckard comment is a good counterpunch

 

I think it would make sense to have more than a Luke cameo in the first film, just to ease the transition.

 

You miss the point, I think. I think everyone knew and assumed that Eps I-III, if ever made, would focus on what came before. But when Star Wars was renamed, Eps I-III could have just as easily been about how Luke's father really WAS killed by Darth Vader. There was no immediate implication (at least to 13-year-old me) that "Aha! This movie series isn't about Luke after all." My money is on almost no one thinking that at the time. The saga can easily be seen (and I do see it) as a family saga.... not one particularly focused on Anakin Skywalker. Not that I think you can't look at it that way, and George may well prefer for people to see it that way (well, at least until he decided Eps VII-IX were about Anakin's grandchildren). But movies are subjective, and I DON'T see it that way. For me, the OT is all about Luke's journey to becoming a Jedi. That's not going to change. It didn't change for me with the revelation that Vader was Luke's father. That just added a wonderful layer of complexity and challenge on Luke's path to becoming a Jedi.

 

It's true... ask my mum...
Seriously - I was always prentending to be Anakin Skywalker as a kid. I was always really interested in the 'untold' stories... specifically the 'Clone Wars'.

 

I'm not sure that was the point. What I was highlighting is that Lucas' take on the thematic/narrative drive of the films seems to jive with my interpretation of the story he was telling... and I'm not talking about the interpretation I had watching the PT, but my interpretation when watching the OT (specifically post TESB). I'm sure for many here that seemed to be the thrust too (as I've discussed it on these boards in the past).

 

Regardless of what was or wasn't a happy accident, Or what was changed along the way, I think it's very, very unlikely that if the Internet had existed in 1977-1980, there wouldnt have been widespread theorising and certainty that Vader was Luke's father. There are (possibly inadvertent) clues, such as Ben's delay, the lack of further info about Luke's father.

As for redemption - I think that would be harder to pick up on in ANH, but in Empire Strikes Back, I first saw it aged 12 (quite late for a now 35 year old) in 1992, and wasn't aware of Vader being Luke's father; it was a true revelation, and the first seed of redemption I picked up on was when Piett expected to be killed, but Vader was clearly distracted rather than angry; I never felt the doubt about whether Vader was lying - there was more an almost palpable sense that Vader felt he'd blown it - almost like an absent father in real life misjudging how to relate to a child when reunited.

 

George shouldn't worry about his treatments not being used. He should focus more on making Red Tails 2: The Zombie Years.

 

That quote was fabricated, sorry, hence "parallel dimension".

 

Disney owns that too. How about THX-1139. Oh, darn, he can't do that either. Well. Maybe he'll make Space Conflicts Episode 1.

 

It'd bomb.

 

The PT is about Anakin. The OT is about Luke. It has always been this way. The "The SW saga has always been about the tragedy of Darth Vader" story is a fantastic lie.

 

I'm amazed people swallow it.

 

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

 

I'm amazed people take everything literally. "The Star Wars" script included a tragic father General character who was more machine now than man, and a hero named Annikin, as well as the tragic death of a son. People who think Lucas is actually trying to fool us when he himself released these materials should rethink their logic. Kane and Annikin became Anakin and Luke.

 

Reworking similar ideas is not the same as the whole saga being mapped out all along. And the OT was never primarily about the redemption of Anakin Skywalker. That happened (fairly and shrewdly) once the decision was made to make the prequels, just as they've had to reset somewhat since the decision (which came from George) to make more movies.

 

I'm not saying I feel this way, but there is a difference between recycling moments and ideas (which GL did) and recycling an entire film (which is what it could seem like JJ is doing if you have a certain point of view).