ST George Lucas and the Mystery of the Treatment

Yes, I think it's remarkable that people forget that TESB script was mainly written by Lucas with polishings by Kasdan. Kasdan has made duds (and he was "responsible" for the re-use of the Death Star in ROTJ).

As for the "I know"-line, Kershner thought the original line didn't work and had Ford adlib a bunch of lines. From what I gather, Lucas allowed the line to stay during the preview, but if it had gotten a negative reaction, then the take with the original line would've been used.

 

No no no no no no no no no.

To see what balance is in Star Wars, compare Yoda's confrontation with his dark side, and James Kirk's in the old Star Trek.

You are choosing the dualism of Trek.

 

I thought Harrison Ford himself came up with the "I know" Line.

 

Yep, Harrison came up with 'I know', since he thought that the original line 'I love you too' would not fit Han's character.

 

That is true, which is why I wrote "Kershner thought the original line didn't work and had Ford adlib a bunch of lines".

 

Oh OK; sorry, I should have read your Post closer.

 

The sequels are going to be interesting. Lucas used the prequels to create a 6-movie arc. Ever since the first prequel was made, he's been saying it's 6 movies, the Sith are gone and Anakin has fulfilled some ancient destiny. He used the Special Editions to show the audience that the Empire was collapsing after the death of the Emperor. The bad guys had been defeated once and for all and the galaxy is free. The teaser has shown us a guy with a red lightsaber and Imperial troops and TIEs, things that, if we are to believe Lucas' 6-movie arc, shouldn't really be there (and also begs the question as to why design hasn't changed as much as it did between Sith and Hope).

Now we have to ask ourselves what the truth is. Did Lucas really decide to end the saga with 6 movies, only coming up with a new trilogy when he started to think about selling his company? Or has he been lying since 1999? Has he always intended to do what he first talked about decades earlier, namely Episodes VII, VIII and X? If these films were always supposed to be made, then should we be taking a closer look at Clone Wars, given how involved he was with that show? The Mortis and Yoda arcs alone have opened up the mystery of the Force on a far greater level than even the movies. Could there be clues to the sequels in those arcs? Who knows? Well...George does.

The nature of this trilogy is going to depend greatly on when and why Lucas came up with it.

 

About Lucas saying that there will be only 6 movies - remember that he also said at one point that there are 9, and another time said that there were 12.

Now let's pretend we're Lucas in 2005, after the mostly mixed reception of the PT and Special Editions, and someone asks us about Episodes 7, 8, 9 and beyond. How would you respond to that question? What would be the point of hyping the ST 10 years before the fact? - there would have been an endless influx of questions from fans and the press, huge hype, but after a while it would have become boring.
It was obvious that we were going to get the PT, but it wasn't obvious about the ST. We don't know if Lucas changed his mind so many times, depending on his mood and the reception of his movies (including the Special Editions).

In my opinion had Lucas admitted that there was indeed a ST being planned, there would have been a huge pressure to release it as soon as possible (2008 even). Not to mention the millions of people trying to obtain "secret" information about the plot and characters - like it happens today, but during a span of 10 years, instead of 3.

 

I think even by 1999 Lucas was still talking about the potential for another trilogy. By AOTC, though, he was adamant that it was always meant to be six, and six alone. Of course, that’s poppycock.

 

It was right around the time TPM came out when Lucas started saying that there would never be episodes 7-9. However, he only rarely mentioned the ST on and off during the time period between RotJ and TPM. I think overall he took a personal interest in the PT because of its themes of democracy failing, etc. If you look back at his interviews over the years, he was very adamant about making the PT, and was very specific about certain things, such as it being a more political costume drama, whereas he was a lot more vague when describing the ST. Therein lies a clue in regard to the ST: it's obviously not going to have a lot of the same themes that featured in the PT that were of great interest to Lucas (again, such as how a democracy become a dictatorship, and how a good person becomes evil).

 

It's a good point, but if you recall, GL was still saying that such themes were of major importance in the 2012 YouTube interview he gave immediately after the sale was announced - and at a time when the treatment for the ST was well under way. You'll have to refer to them to hear exactly what he said. It doesn't state outright that these themes will be in the ST, but it certainly lends credence to the idea.

 

Disney is hoping for that kind of "mixed" reception!

That would make them ecstatic in the extreme.

Huge box office and great audience reception to make them among the biggest hits of all time.

 

Just imagine what the reaction to the prequels and resultant box office take could have been if they had been critically well-received and regarded in the same terms as the OT...

 

Which alternate history are you drawing from?

 

It's polite to say that the critical reception to the PT was tepid at best. As someone who has watched the OT hundreds of times, I have watched the PT once, and that's quite enough, thanks.

A decent narrative, with involving plot and well-drawn characters, set in the SW universe, will be sensational. Three things that were missing last time around.

 

Why would you think there would be a difference at all?

Lots of movies critics love are seen by virtually no one and lots of movies they don't like are massive all time hits like the PT which are currently still TPM number 5, ROTS 22 and AOTC 40 compared to ANH 6, TESB 59 and ROTJ 42.

You are really missing out then. After TFA comes out and more than likely disappoints you I would recommend to go back to the PT and see what you are missing.

[/quote]
A decent narrative, with involving plot and well-drawn characters, set in the SW universe, will be sensational. Three things that were missing last time around. [/quote]

The PT's narrative is excellent and far beyond decent. The characters are extremelty well drawn and were sensational.

These things I hope the ST will have.

 

I agree. I would just simply add that it was foolish to believe Lucas when he claimed that there were only six movies, as I did. Lucas within the context/content of STAR WARS has always framed it within a Three-act structure and, lo and behold, so it goes with the saga story with the edition of a Sequel Trilogy.

This being the case then the ST should be a culminating part of a larger story that resolves itself within the context of the previous story elements and plot-points. I know there are those who believe the continuation of the Skywalker story is enough to connect the saga going forward, but don't count me as one of them. This third act should be climactic and resolving in a blend of the prior two trilogy acts and on both sides of the Force. To continue the story of the Skywalker bloodline alone without representing the same story problem as part of a larger arcing story would be unnecessarily limiting in breadth and scope and jarringly asymmetrical in form, IMO. There must be new vistas, but within the internal logic of the story, not out of left field, so to speak.

When I speak of a blend within the context of STAR WARS and the possibilities for the ST, I imagine that the protagonist (Skywalker) will face similar story elements Luke faced in the OT and the antagonists (the Sith) will tie into story elements and threads left over and unresolved from the PT. This approach would effectively create something of a synthesis of the first and second acts. It is sensible to think in this manner, IMO.

 

Ya know, I often think some people read way too much into the SW story than is necessary. But each to their own. Good vs Evil does it for me...

 

The dark is always a part of you.

Except that the Skywalker or Solo's in this one will not be in the same postion as Anakin and Luke so someone will have to do the hero's journey. I would guess Finn plays that role. The children of the heroes who were raised by them can't do the same thing.

 

Dualism is weak. If the Yoda arc says anything about Lucas's own beliefs, he agrees with me.

 

George Lucas discusses Strange Magic, Star Wars Sequels, Movies, Family, etc.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2015/01/12/george-lucas-strange-magic-movie/21624493/

 

This quote makes me happy:

 

It seems as if Lucas wrote the treatment for the film and Micheal Arndt then expanded it. It seems doubtful Lucas ever intended to direct it himself. The point being there is a good chance Lucas’ outline is what we will have as the skeleton of this film.
http://makingstarwars.net/2015/01/g...ng-star-wars-force-awakens-selling-lucasfilm/

This is something that I've always believed about the ST.

 

But here's the funny thing. Back in 1980, I bought a paperback book called, Once Upon a Galaxy: A Journal of the Making of The Empire Strikes Back by Alan Arnold. I still have it in a box somewhere.

Arnold was present during the filming, and in this book he provides entire transcripts of conversations between Kershner and some of the actors, especially in the carbon-freezing scene. He includes a transcript of a conversation between Kershner and Ford, and according to that transcript Han's original line was, "Just remember that Leia, because I'll be back." Not "I love you, too."

At one point in the conversation, Kershner even jokes about it, telling Ford something like, "You have to say 'I'll be back' -- it's almost contractual!" And Ford replies with something like, "If I say 'I know' I think that is simple and beautiful and funny." Which flies in the face of the whole idea he came up with "I know" on the spur of the moment as the scene was being filmed.

I can't imagine why Alan Arnold would have fabricated an entire fake conversation between Kershner and Ford. I don't believe he did. The line, "Just remember that Leia because I'll be back" rings true and makes a lot more sense to me, I do believe that was the original line. Why would Ford and even Kershner lie about that line all these years? My best guess is that Ford thought/thinks it might hurt his image with the fans if they knew he didn't want to say "I'll be back" -- because that makes it seem as if he really did have strong reservations about coming back for ROTJ.

Just my take on it. YMMV.

 

The thing I like most about that interview is the fact that Lucas sounds very pleased, very enthusiast about TFA... Seems like they're following his story to an acceptable base or at least respecting a lot of his guidelines. SW is Lucas's baby and I'm happy to know that he's having a say in the new stories.