ST George Lucas and the Mystery of the Treatment

Quite, and JJ has also said he had to own it, and both JJ and LK have said there was very little corporate interference from Disney once they got going (also - Disney know plenty about filmmaking so let's not make our they are just a bunch of number-crunchers. They pretty much let Marvel or lucasfilm handle the creative and production side. And please don't try and make out KK doesn't know what she's doing).

Maybe the creator's story just wasn't that great. It's not that hard to imagine such a thing.

 

Blamed for .... What? This movie is going to make bank and be great at the same time so where's the blame. You do realize JJ had 100% say in the final cut of the movie right? This couldn't be further from being a corporate movie

 

He also sketched all of the designs & let McQuarrie take the credit. Did you know he's also the real voice for Yoda? & he operated Jabba all by himself.

 

She's obviously a lying corporate hack.

 

Lets not forget that Disney also owns Pixar, which has made some of the most unique and creative films of the past decade.

 

I love that bit. It shows that JJ respects everything that came before, as I always believed he did (and was a major reason I was all for him directing in the first place).

Back to the topic of George (which it seems like we're slowly coming closer to actually discussing), I don't really see Lucas telling us something we didn't already know. The VF article told us that things ended shakily and it was a sore subject at Lucasfilm, and Lucas just clarified what happened. In fact, what he ended up doing was basically say, "I don't want to cause trouble. You guys do your thing and I'll do mine." There really doesn't seem to be any controversy here. We're just having some of the holes in the behind the scenes story filled in.

 

I'd love to see the "treatments" that George gave Disney as part of the sale, so we could see what (if anything) is actually worth arguing about.

In the absence of that, I just hope we get a damn good Star Wars movie.

 

The more I think about it the more I'm happy for George's sake & for the sake of SW that he's completely out of the picture. Lucas has simply fallen out of love with SW & blockbuster films in general. It's been on the cards for years, even decades. The amount of complaining from him about it all, like it's an annoying burden has been steadily increasing. He created an amazing movie that was unexpectedly a huge hit & since then it seems he's been locked into this thing. Consider these quotes over the years:

“I’ve retired from directing,” Lucas says [in a memo regarding finding a director for Empire]. “If I directed Empire then I’d have to direct the next one and the next for the rest of my life. I’ve never really liked directing. I became a director because I didn’t like directors telling me how to edit, and I became a writer because I had to write something in order to be able to direct something. So I did everything out of necessity, but what I really like is editing.”
- Lucas, 1979.http://thisisanadventure.com/2011/02/george-lucas-reconsidered/

“George doesn’t like to write,” [director Irvin] Kershner says. “He hates writing.”
Kershner, 1980. http://thisisanadventure.com/2011/02/george-lucas-reconsidered/

There are about a dozen similar quotes over 30 years. Also countless times where he's said he doesn't like working with & directing actors. Well what does he like? Editing apparently. Now he's saying he became sick of the SW formula which stifles experimentation. Also his choices have become increasingly bizarre IMO. Things like dubbing "No, no no, Nnnoooo" over the iconic scene with Vader in RotJ. Like I said, I'm happy for his sake he decided to move on. It's way past time for new super enthusiastic & driven younger people who love SW, love writing & love directing to manage this thing.

I'm reminded as well that after the sale Disney/Lucasfilm hired a great writer to develop GL's treatment into a script. Far from disregarding it they spent months on it. In the end it didn't come together like they hoped so major changes were made. So be it. It's not like Lucas has some divine touch & he's the only person on the planet who's capable of coming up with a good SW story.

 

I'm not sure that's the same thing.... because what resonates with one filmmaker may not resonate with another. One may automatically try and do something conceptionally different. Another may only wish to move the same pieces around the same chess board... whilst each are being true to their "personal way", the net result may not be the same thing at all.

It's my interpretation that Lucas is suggesting that his story/ideas were very much a continuation of films 1-6... but that Disney gravitated to something more populist at the expense of Lucas' more holistic vision. Now the reality may be that TFA is a better film than what Lucas conceived (we shall see), but my personal fear has always been that the ST would/could feel disconnected to what was the larger narrative.

 

The bottom line is that whatever happens there are a group of people who will hate everything about the Disney acquisition.

I love George and respect him, but the PT really didn't work on a number of levels. His ST treatments had something that the PT didn't, people willing to call it if it was poor. Clearly his ST treatment didn't satisfy the people that paid $4b and its their right to make alterations.

Early signs are that TFA is going to be excellent, so Disneys decision to go in a different direction appears to be justified.

 

Logic has no place here (or in GL's mind)

 

Well, we were discussing filmmakers needing to make films for themselves. That does not preclude any of what you're saying, including telling "populist" stories. Indeed, ANH was populist to the bone.

 

I know I said I was leaving, but I'll just leave this here for all your "GL was totally non-corporate and independent and an artiste" needs.



Drops mic.

 

Please show me one single piece of evidence how this movie is a "made by committee" instead of a collaboration between JJ and LK. Your love of George Lucas is getting in the way of enjoying the movie, and it's pretty pathetic. The simple fact that JJ has 100% final say on the final cut of the movie basically voids every single comment you have made.

 

I concur!!

I liked all 6 SW films (lol some more then others). I want 7-9 to continue the Skywalker legacy and I am sure I probably would have liked George's treatments for 7-9. From what I have seen of JJ's SW. I am definitely loving what I see so far (yes, please Rey Skywalker)

Yes its George's stories and he told them like he wanted to. SW episodes 7-9 WERE his to make. He has the resources to make them his way, continue HIS story.. I watch that interview and it actually make me lose a little respect for him.

He CHOSE to sell Lucasfilms and with it all the rights to Star Wars, including the option of not using his treatments. He specifically said in the past that he didn't want to do these episodes. hindsight is 20/20 and if he doesn't like how his sale of his company worked out now. Well shame on you. Don't blame Disney for a choice that at was one point 100% in your hands. Disney paid 4B dollars for Lucasfilm, with it the right not to include George and his treatments.

I think Star Wars (as a continuing saga) is better off now. NO not because George is not involved, but because we will get more stories from a world I have loved since 1977. 28 more days.... and it all begins again and I cant wait... Thank you George for the vision.. Thank you Disney for continuing the story.

 

I'd really love to read these treatments. Without them I can see how his fandom would be siding with him as if he had three great masterpieces in the making that got thrown out to make something a big Corp like Disney wanted to make. Fiction of course.

Only thing we have to go on really is that he was going to have teens in it, and if that means teens on the younger side, I can see why Disney was a little put off.

In truth nobody is the bad guy here. George wanted to tell "stories," about the grandkids and not something made for people who actually want to enjoy a Star Wars film. Disney and company want to make a film that will hopefully give the Star Wars film franchise a better rep than it has had since the PT. I can't blame them.

and a side effect of wanting to make a film to appeal to more people was that we lost out on a more original idea. Episode 7 is very safe from what I can tell, and it leans heavy on the structure of ANH. That doesn't mean it won't be great. It's all in the execution. Unfortunately is also means it's not the film we film lovers have to look to in order to see a SW film that really shows what the movies can be. We'll have to wait for Episode 8 for that, and I think that's what will happen for better or worse.

Episode 7 is pretty much in the same position that Star Trek 09 was, and it's trying to do a lot of the things that film did. Namely, reinvigorate the franchise and bring in new viewers. Star Trek 09 sacrificed a lot of the science for blockbuster, but you can't blame it since it was first movie in a reboot series and the hope was the science would come in the next film(it didn't). Episode 7 sacrifices something original in order to take people back to the time when the movies were good. Which is also what Jurassic World did, but that movie only succeeds as a nostalgia piece, and is not a good movie.

 

Agree with everything you said, including Jurassic World, which I thought was incredibly overrated.

Disney was going to play it as safe as possible with this film, to try and reinvigorate and restart the series. I have a feeling Episode VIII will take more chances and be less of what we'd expect from a SW film.

 

Didn't Lucas have issues with big corporations like Disney running films and what not when he was making the OT?
So many years later he goes and gives SW to Disney?
Was scratching my head back in 2012 and still scratching my head now.
You didn't think that the ST going a different way was a possibility?

 

I think he did, in the abstract. But breaking up with someone is fine until you see them with someone new, laughing and smiling and looking the happiest you've seen them in 32 years.

 

Keep in mind that George was in charge for almost 40 years. That's a long time to be the boss. I'm sure this whole thing has been an adjustment. Really, he doesn't seem to be as bitter about it as a lot of folks seem to think.

 

& everyone gushing over their new partner & saying how much better they look then when you were with them. Ouch

Agreed. He says here that even though they didn't use his story he's excited to see the movie

 

Word.

 

I don't feel like this movie is trying to be "safe" at all, to each their own but I have not had that impression at all. And I guarantee that JJ has a whole bunch of stuff tucked away up his sleeve because he would not have fought for final cut had he wanted to simply make a safe and by the numbers movie, that's not what JJ is about at all. From everything I've seen and heard they seem very proud of what they have accomplished on this, and George seems like he's someone who's taken so much hate because of the prequels ( which is deserved in my opinion ) that he has turned bitter and wants to heckle the new crew. If they wanted to make a safe movie they would have put Luke front and center and kept a very tight lid on things. Whenever I see people's comparisons to ANH they are reaching at best. Complaining about a desert? saying Hux is Tarkin? Tarkin and Hux could not be more different if they literally tried to make him the opposite. Every comparison to ANH or the OT in general has been complaining about character archetypes and locations and ships. None of which have anything to do with the actual story and characters. I see very little resemblance to ANH other than the fact that it's the start of a new story, the good guys and bad guys look similar (storm troopers and ships and all that ) and that's pretty much it. and then people comparing Maz to Yoda? Really? In what ways are they similar other than the simple archetype that they have to the story - news flash, stories have character archetypes. JJ doesn't really try to do simple movies or tv shows

 

New Hamill interview coming up. Here's an excerpt. Apparently he doesn't think this will be ANH rehashed at all:

“I think [THE FORCE AWAKENS] could be every bit as exciting for the audience, [but] it’s not going to be like it was then, when we’re rattling around in the Death Star, and exchanging quips, and jockeying for the affections of the princess. It’s going to be age appropriate. The story has moved on, and our purpose in the story is different than it was then […] The new storyline, the new characters, and especially the actors that they chose to play them, are thrilling beyond words.”
http://www.hitfix.com/harpy/28-days-until-star-wars-mark-hamill-is-ready-to-pass-the-lightsaber-to-a-new-generation