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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST George Lucas and the Mystery of the Treatment

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Darth_Corvus, Aug 4, 2013.

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  1. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Sep 20, 2002
    We do not know whether Plagueis was removed from the story or not (we don't know if he was ever in it in the first place), so don't claim that he was as if it's a fact. What we do know, however, is that neither Disney nor Lucasfilm have any intention of decanonizing the prequels.

    In short: stop with the baiting!
     
  2. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    IIRC PH said Plagueis wasn't in Lucas' treatments.

    The point I've made before is that I would be amazed if Lucas put Plagueis in his story.

    Why would he place a Sith in his ST when Anakin destroying the Sith was a keystone of his saga?

    I thought that it was very possible that JJ and co might use Plagueis. I didn't really think they would but it was easy enough to argue that based on TFA and what is now the canon for Plagueis (since the novel isn't and never really was canon in the first place) that they might. I don't think he will be but it is still possible as of now.

    What we do know, however, is that neither Disney nor Lucasfilm have any intention of decanonizing the prequels.

    Exactly. This is pure fact stated years ago and seen in every way, shape and form from the movies to animation to comics and books.

    The intricate interweaving they are doing across the new canon is self-evident.
     
    The Legions of Lettow likes this.
  3. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    according to gl's story in ep 3 dp is dead anyway. the only people who think dp isn't dead are fans who made up their own stories about it. also the pt is alive and well.
     
  4. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Sifo-Dyas, on the other hand...

    :p
     
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  5. Strongbow

    Strongbow Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 6, 2014


    Well, to be fair, we only have Palpatine's word that Plagueis is dead. I do think it likely, of course, but it's not like a Sith Lord never lies.
     
  6. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 19, 2003
    true but that's the last gl mentioned it in the films and considering the prophecy was fulfilled and the sith were destroyed dp can't be alive since he was a sith.
     
  7. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 14, 2015

    It's amazing how the Plagueis theory will not die because of lack of imagination. Why would Disney decanonize the prequel? Don't present speculation as fact.

    I suggest we ignore every pro-Plagueis posts. Before the debunking there were good posts. Since then theyve seriously degenerated. It isn't worth it. I'll start.


    Jedi aren't exactly innocent of lying.
     
  8. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    It's funny you should mention that, because... it's completely beside the point.

    On topic, I still believe that many of GL's ideas remain in the story. What we get is, of course, a very different take on the story than we'd have gotten if he'd been directly involved, but I'm very hopeful that the essence of his treatment will be there when the trilogy is complete.
    Plotwise, that is. It seems like there's been quite a lot of shifting things around, fusing of characters and overall a different tonality, but there's a million ways to tell a story and I'd bet you anything that a trilogy controlled by George would've turned out quite different from his treatment too in the end.

    It's interesting to me, though, that the First Order was, as I've understood it, conceived by Abrams and Kasdan. It makes me wonder what the new war was like in GL's head.
    Did he imagine an EpVII told from the new, growing Republic's point of view, where they were having trouble with regional Governors from the old Empire and maybe pirates? Was it more of a growing internal conflict where people had different ideas about how the new democracy should function? Was it a little bit of both?
     
  9. B99

    B99 Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 10, 2014
    I didn't know that JJ and LK came up with the FO. He is the director I guess. I don't think GL would have come up with something similar to The First Order though.. I would love to see what George's empire of the ST and War would look like!!
     
  10. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 12, 2011
    As for the New Republic which is only briefly seen and features more prominently in the novel Bloodline, it's more Rian Johnson.

    Untimely Reference@pablohidalgo
    The disposition of the New Republic, its political factions and the napkin incident were pieces that came from Rian.
     
  11. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

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    Mar 10, 2005
    Huh! Cool.
     
  12. RC-2473

    RC-2473 Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 14, 2015
    #fanfic:

    I just played through most of an uncharted game for the first time. there needs to be a star wars game like this and you could come up with a great story set in between rotj and tfa using george's original ideas.

    you play as a treasure hunter looking for various artifacts like luke's saber, vader's helmet, etc. mostly third person blaster oriented, but later you find a lightsaber and have the option to use it. you begin in new republic territory, but the emerging first order wants to find the treasure too. eventually your character becomes a part of a much bigger fight with the resistance against the first order, the knights of ren being the primary villains.

    exploring ancient jedi/sith temples, speeder chases through coruscant, tense blaster battles in urban first order streets, weird facsist mysticism. sounds like a great game.
     
  13. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Sep 20, 2002
    That's a pretty cool idea, but this isn't the place for it. There's a Games section on these forums where you discuss, well, games.
     
    Khan_Mace likes this.
  14. 357hermon

    357hermon Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jan 6, 2016
    Over 300 pages is a lot to look through... Any discussion on George's original script including the Knights of the Sith? This seems like something that created the Knights of Ren
     
  15. B99

    B99 Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 10, 2014
  16. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2017
    or that he ever existed at all. haha

    i don't know why these "news sources" do this-- the likelihood of ghost-yoda or frank oz himself being 'the last jedi' is close to nil, but they have to put that in there anyway!
     
  17. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 12, 2011
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  18. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

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    Mar 26, 2013
    Do you have a source where Pablo said that about George/Plagueis? If so that's very interesting.
     
  19. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2004
  20. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 9, 2009
    A fairer reading of Oz's comment is simply that Abrams did the job he was asked to do, and that (his speculation is that) Lucas would have made something more lore-heavy and focused more on being a morality play. He basically said "It's a really fun movie that kicks off this new era".

    If you want to see Oz offer a scathing critique of something, in the very same interview he says the recent Muppet show didn't understand the characters or give the performers room to breathe, and that he only watched the first 15 minutes.
     
    -Jedi Joe- likes this.
  21. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 2, 2016
    Also, it's arc. Not arch.
     
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  22. JW Fan

    JW Fan Jedi Knight star 1

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    Aug 31, 2015
    I was reading through the RO art book recently and it was really cool how they spent a few pages discussing Knoll's treatment, and how they talked a little bit about what changed as it developed (hint: a lot!!).

    It made clear the stark contrast with the TFA art book, where George Lucas' treatment is literally mentioned once, in passing, just one sentence in the January 2013 section saying that the treatment was provided to the project's creative team.

    The RO book makes it clear where the ideas originated. The TFA one, meanwhile, makes it appear as if the concept originated almost out of thin air, and as if they are purposely avoiding crediting anything to Lucas for some reason. The author never attributes the original idea to anybody.

    In the TFA book, the January 2013 section has them suddenly talking about Arndt and the story having a young male and female as the leads and a Jedi killer, Felucia, etc. But it makes it seem like those ideas, as I said, essentially came out of thin air, so to speak, and doesn't mention the "genesis"!

    Pablo Hidalgo has cleared up what that genesis was -- Lucas, of course - the young male and female, Jedi killer, Felucia, etc. were all his ideas or evolved from them -- but the art book steers clear. The making of book was cancelled or delayed so that obviously won't tell us anything either, at least for now.

    I mean, did they think that saying the ideas came from Lucas would make people suddenly start hating the movie? Did Lucas personally request that the film not in any way be attributed to him because he thought it was so terrible and totally unlike what he would have done?

    Anyway, kind of bizarre. I can't imagine you could just "overlook" something as big as the place where the story began, especially when you notice that the RO book spent several pages talking about it, in its own special chapter, in fact.
     
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  23. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 26, 2009
    Do we know at what point in writing / pre production that it was decided the Jedi killer would be Han and Leia's son?
     
  24. JW Fan

    JW Fan Jedi Knight star 1

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    Aug 31, 2015

    I'm not sure. I don't *think* it was something that was there in the early stages, but I could be wrong. I can't remember for sure and can't name a source, unfortunately.
     
  25. JW Fan

    JW Fan Jedi Knight star 1

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    Aug 31, 2015
    Just realized btw that my post above could also apply to the Blu-rays featurettes: Rogue One had one on the treatment. TFA's didn't really even mention it, IIRC.
     
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