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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST George Lucas and the Mystery of the Treatment

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Darth_Corvus, Aug 4, 2013.

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  1. fastcooljosh

    fastcooljosh Jedi Master star 2

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    Mar 15, 2017
    exactly ! ^^
     
  2. WhyKnock

    WhyKnock Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jul 8, 2016

    In my mind, the idea that they finally showed the one thing that Luke was fighting so hard to avoid himself doing happen. There are so many other ways Han's death could have gone in the movie. He could have simply sacrificed himself to save his insane son, Snoke could have done it, many other ways.

    In Star Wars fashion they went there and in the beginning, not the end. I have some hope that it will pay off and that Han's heroics at the end pay off.
     
  3. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    It's such a George Lucas move to make, killing a would be mentor in the emotional turning point of first part of the trilogy. Qui Gon and Obi Wan. :(

    I wonder what George Lucas would have done if they had only let him. :)

    But Han was trying to save his son when died.

    Why is Kylo going down a path that Luke steered away from inferior to any of the other story suggestions you've given? What personal relationship is there between Snoke and Han that on killing the other would enhance or redefine?
     
  4. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 12, 2011
    And being stricken down, they have become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

    Yes they lost their physical bodies but they still continue to play a mentor role for the heroes and influence the story starting by Qui-Gon with his death in TPM which was sad but then we briefly hear his voice in AotC and in RotS when we learned that he taught Yoda the secret of immortality which is explained in TCW season 6 and now Qui-Gon is going to teach Obi-Wan this secret and then fast forward to the OT, Obi-Wan still guided Luke even after he died and we know that GL initially didn't want to kill Yoda in RotJ for a while. I know GL got a lot of flack for his lack of planing for the OT but in this case you could say that everything was connected. ;) And everything new added a deeper meaning to the saga and GL was great at doing it, there's no doubt about it at least as far as I'm concerned.
     
  5. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    I do wonder if he'll ever release his original ideas for TFA?
     
  6. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 12, 2011
    Can he do that though? Or isn't it up to Lucasfilm?
     
  7. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Sep 20, 2002
    George could never release that on his own - it would be 100% up to Lucasfilm. His treatment was part of the sale after all.
     
    TK327 and Artoo-Dion like this.
  8. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    Qui Gon's role in that concept is enigmatic and did not materially influence the story until very late in episode three. Two full episodes after he died. And its function is to set up the way that Lucas solved the problem of deciding to give greater dramatic impact to the end of the second act of ANH yet still have Obi Wan instruct Luke in the third act in a more interesting way than originally conceived.

    The ability for some Jedi to achieve this is hardly justification for only considering the death of one to be worth depicting. Paticularly since they don't strictly die. They only give up their physical form.

    Han's dead. He ain't popping up again. The story, paticularly of the characters closest to Han and his death, is profoundly affected by his enforced and permanent absence. Nobody's allowed to carry on regardless.
     
  9. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

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    Aug 9, 2004
    Also, I don’t think having Luke appear for thirty seconds at the bittersweet ending, not uttering a single word, was a safe move. The fact that the Internet exploded when the news broke, very negatively in some parts, is evidence of this.
     
  10. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 12, 2011
    Since this is not the complaint thread I'll only finish by saying that I didn't find there were enough new elements to make me care about its plot or it not seeming that different from what came before and I found Finn was the only fresh character in that movie, I like Rey but her backstory is a blank slate which will definitively be explored in VIII and IX so I'm still on the fence about her, and I can't help but love BB-8 and of course John Williams's music.
     
  11. Jim Smith

    Jim Smith Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Apr 5, 2017
    Absolutely no one defended The Force Awakens more than me when it first came out but with the release of Rogue One I have to say that that has changed a good deal. TFA IS most definitely a remake/hack job. I know that that isn't going to be popular here in this thread but it's just my true feelings. And I also have to say that I'm more looking forward to the young Han Solo film than I am The Last Jedi, a LOT more as a matter of fact.
     
  12. ThreeDeathstickProblem

    ThreeDeathstickProblem Force Ghost star 5

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    Sep 25, 2014
    I really need to see the version of ANH everyone else has seen.

    I remember Luke yearning for adventure and wanting to escape his life of drudgery on the family farm. But apparently there's a version where he repeatedly refuses offers of adventure because he has a vain hope to be reunited with his parents? Sounds interesting.

    Similarly, I remember Vader being an inhuman, uncomplicated villain, fully devoted to his cause and not hesitating to kill his mentor. But apparently Vader was actually extremely conflicted, ordinary looking young man who feels called to the light and almost repented?

    And there's supposedly a cut where Han is a rookie stormtrooper, a bit understated and afraid to stand up against enemies initially, but he develops courage and stands up for the defenseless? Because my memory of Han was as a scruffy, back-talking, fearless but selfish jerk. But there's a cut where he's fearful but selfless?

    Does anyone have a link to this version of ANH that TFA apparently ripped off with abandon? I keep hearing about the copy-paste job but I'd like to see it for myself. Thanks in advance.
     
  13. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

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    Aug 9, 2004
    I honestly believe that calling TFA either a remake or rehash of ANH is the laziest argument one can make against it. It is not a remake or rehash of ANH. Yes, it pays homage to it, too much in some parts, IMO. Nonetheless, it is very much its own film and it veers in some very different directions when it needs to. Thematically it is very similar to ANH, but so is TPM (which is something that a lot of people fail to mention).
     
  14. Seagoat

    Seagoat Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 25, 2013
    Hate to play devil's advocate, but

    This in particular is sort of repeated, although not line for line, perhaps stanza for stanza in that Luke in fact does refuse the call to adventure on the basis of needing to stay on the boring desert planet for familial reasons - although in his case, to stay with his family

    Although I will agree with you in that since I first saw it, I didn't even think "rehash" or "remake" of ANH in even a tiny capacity. Sure, there's a droid with information in it, but that's pretty much it. That info's not about SKB, nor does SKB take the place of the Death Star in terms of plot devices

    Quite frankly, I just see this as the internet's next big nonsense complaint
     
  15. ThreeDeathstickProblem

    ThreeDeathstickProblem Force Ghost star 5

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    Sep 25, 2014
    Yes it's true that Luke refuses the call, but his reasons and Rey's have a different emphasis. Luke's refusal is based in real, tangible obligations to a family he knows and loves. Luke knows who he is and the nature of his relationship to his aunt and uncle. But despite this, Luke still yearns for adventure. The course of his hero's journey is about discovering his past, his father's role as a Jedi and resolving to be part of something greater and become Jedi like his father.

    Rey's journey flips that on its head. Rey's refusal is based in her central flaw, a hopeless, intangible longing to be reunited with a family that's not there and not coming back. Rey doesn't know who she is or who her family are. She stays not out of love or obligation but out of fear of permanent loss. She only accepts the call when she lets go of her past and resolves to fight for her friend who came back.

    So while Luke and Rey both follow the hero's journey, the things that hold them back and drive them forward are very different.
     
  16. GoJohnnyGo

    GoJohnnyGo Jedi Knight star 2

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    Nov 19, 2012
    Episode 7 intentionally feels like ANH. Disney wanted to make Star Wars feel like Star Wars again after the embarrassment that was episodes 1 and 2.. Episodes 8 and 9 will be less familiar IMO. The crux of the story will not mirror the OT with surprise family reunions for Rey or some one turning from good to bad or visa versa. IMObThe surprise will be Hans triumphant return flying in on the falcon to save the day at the end of episode 8....
     
  17. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

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    Mar 10, 2005
    To call that a surprise would be an understatement.
     
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  18. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Sep 20, 2002
    Yeah, don't get your hopes up. Han is dead. Very dead. Like, he got stabbed (and yes, we did see that happen), fell down a ridiculously deep cavern, and then the planet blew up. He's dead, son. Accept it.
     
  19. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

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    Mar 10, 2005
    ...unless Kylo jumped down, or ordered stormtroopers to go down there, to fetch Han's body off camera and then, in TLJ, uses dark side powers to revive him.





    :p
     
  20. MatthewZ

    MatthewZ Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 21, 2003
    Dark Side Han Solo??
     
  21. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    That's actually an interesting way to go,..... if the oscillator wasn't in the process of bowing itself up, preventing any expedition to retrieve daddy's carcass even before the whole planet blew.
     
    Lulu Mars likes this.
  22. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

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    Mar 10, 2005
    Solo Ren :kylo:
     
  23. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    I just did a search for evil Ren's dad.

    [​IMG]

    Maybe it wasn't the real Han that died.




    Kylo should take a leaf out of his namesake's book and change his head gear.

    He clearly doesn't have as happy a helmet as Ren Hoek.

    Look how happy he would be if he did.

    [​IMG]

    You eeeediot!
     
    Lulu Mars likes this.
  24. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 19, 2003
    something's an embarrassment alright.
     
  25. OldTimeFan

    OldTimeFan Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jul 28, 2011
    There was a thread about the things we did not like about TFA and from day one I was calling it a bad Star Wars movie.
    I am 100% sure George Lucas would have had an original movie with interesting new visuals.

    However we have what we have and I hope TLJ will be a better effort.
     
    G-FETT likes this.
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