ST George Lucas and the Mystery of the Treatment

TCF-1138 how does this post not qualify as baiting?

 

It's probably more to do with the time I spent moderating the Episode III Spoilers Allowed forum more years ago than I care to remember...

In an attempt to get things back on topic, does anybody think The Last Jedi might be more reflective of "The Treatment" than The Force Awakens was? Presumably they could go back and pick up a lot of strands from Lucas' draft that that were dropped for VII in the later films?

 

Should have known the first TLJ teaser would reboot all the moaning about Disney and TFA.

 

That stuff happens, I get it. I think you guys do a great job running the site. I was just (and still am) confused that the post is still there.

 

Fair enough. I'll drop it. Like I said, you guys do a good job

 

Kinda funny how a fair number of fans seem to be panicking that TLJ's possible gray Jedi-ish plot will depart from George's conception of the Jedi as a pure force of good in direct opposition to the Sith.

I think it's a given that whatever ideas come up in this film on the history and evolution of the Jedi will stem right from discussions with George. Kennedy talks all the time about how she and George talked a lot about how the Force worked before he retired - and I'm sure she has a direct line to him if she ever has a question. For example:

http://ew.com/article/2016/11/22/rogue-one-lucasfilm-new-star-wars-movies/

"We talked a lot about the Jedi and the foundational ideas that George had thought about when he created the mythology."

 

I always thought George wanted the Prequel Jedi to be not as "correct" in their outlook as a lot of fans seem to think.

And Luke's own words in the TLJ trailer suggest that the Jedi and the Sith are the catalysts for a Hegelian dialectic: thesis, antithesis, synthesis.

 

People seem to be very selective about using the constantly changing and often contradictory statements Lucas has made about what he conceived, intended and planned for Star Wars, its sequels and its prequels, when it comes to claiming what the Jedi are supposed to be doing at anyone time - Which often appears to be doing nothing wrong in any way whatsoever, no matter the outcome.

 

I think the fact that GL's original idea, which holds up to this day, was just to make an action movie that was like a Saturday matinee but imbued with mythological motifs speaks for itself. With him, nothing has been set in stone until the time for release has come (and even after that point, he's gone back to make further adjustments). I mean, yeah, the overarching mythological motifs and the sorts of lessons that he's wanted to pass on to kids around the world have remained constant, but the details of how he wanted to tell his story have been in constant motion.
TFA is probably more reflective of his ideas than some of us think, but of course there's been a lot of deviation, of shuffling things around and throwing more ideas into the mix. Just as it would have been under GL's direction. It hasn't been done the way he would've done it, but make no mistake, he would have done it.

 

ANH was the closest SW was black and white, and even then the original Vader was a Jedi--a good guy--who killed his friend and fellow student of Kenobi, Annikin Starkiller. It's been shades of gray ever since, murkier and murkier. A true Jedi with refined sight will discern the light from the dark in all this ambiguity. Mace and PT Yoda couldn't do it, Anakin couldn't--thanks in part to QGJ's death--and PT Kenobi couldn't do it. Maybe ST Luke can do it.

After III GL did TCW. We have the Mortis arc. Then Yoda with the Priestesses. QGJ happened to pop up on both arcs.

When Filoni came up with the idea of Rebels, he consulted with FL on the date of Tank and the nature of the Force. Thus, I believe the Bendu is part of this discussion.

While JJ may have wants to show how the Force is more pervasive, I believe other aspects in TFA, TLJ, and R1 come from GL and the Story Group.

 

Too late to edit.

*to black and white
*pop in
*with GL on the fate of Tano
*may have wanted

 

I think the main issue is the re-constructed and over-layering of "Modern" art.

Lucas used many old motifs, themes and correlations between Soap Opera and Space Opera. Not to mention tons of work from Kurosawa. Basically, the old historical and classical merits are being replaced with a more modernized coat.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Lucas had Joseph Campbell as a mentor. That says a lot..

 

According to some Lucas didn't refer to Campbell until very late in development of Star Wars. It's perhaps attractive to assume that Lucas's process enjoys validity from the beginning by being inspired by it. But apparently it was only referred to in order for Lucas to make sure he wasn't going completely off the deep end.

Campbell is applicable to many works that took no direct influence from him.

 

Yes. After Lucas was finished the OT he finally met him. Campbell's influence on the PT is far greater because of that.

 

Campbell simply summarized the tropes and archetypes found in age-old literature that existed long before he was even born. He's hardly the first to write about this stuff....it's just that his work happened to be read by Lucas.

 

There'll be no Hegelian dialectic in SW of Jedi and Sith. They're irreconcilable and the Sith are no more. In fact, we got Anakin/Jedi become Vader/Sith become Anakin/Jedi--the Return of the Jedi.

 

Good point. At least on the basis of the impression of the Sith (particularly Sidious) and the Jedi given to us so far in the saga.

But then again. The perception of that kind of dialectic (or lack of it) is not always reliable, or fixed, and is often prone to being altered..

 

SW dialectic between the light and the dark is best exemplified in Mortis. Post-priestess encounter Yoda and Mortis are the state I believe that Luke is evolving toward.

 

Cool. I'm not au fait with much canon outwith the movies. I'll maybe check that out after I see TLJ.

 

George Lucas could have made another trilogy and still not mentioned or explained the Journal of the Whills. We don't know if "mining his ideas" just simply means writing explanations of well-known but unexplained characteristics and using them for the story, or actually using his own description of that, kind of like what was done with kyber crystals in "Rogue One."

 

Or "May the Force of Others be with you." That line gave me good chills.