ST George Lucas and the Mystery of the Treatment

Thinly.? More like Lucas bashing.


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PJ I think you're the one making big assumptions. You've made it clear in the past that you're not a fan of the use of OT vehicles & troopers in the ST. Now you've combined that with this comment from Lucas & framed it to suggest the new crowd have brought in these elements you don't like while Lucas would not have done so. That's just a wild guess on your part. In fact the reports all suggested that the difference between Lucas/Arndt & Abrams/Kasdan was the amount of focus on the old characters vs the new ones. Lucas wanted to focus on the younger characters more from the get go. There's no reason to think Abrams/Kasdan have changed broader themes like the Empire & the Alliance still being around in some form & still having similar ships in service.

I also don't buy this line of a "commercial decision rather than an artistic filmmaking one". KK, Abrams, Kasdan & even Disney simply want to make the best possible movie that fans & general moviegoers will love. That's the best commercial AND "artistic" outcome. This isn't a Lars von Trier indie film. It's a fantasy crowd pleaser. If fans & critics love the movie then it will make a zillion dollars & they'll be counting the days till the next film & all parties will be happy.
The better the movie is the stronger the foundation for all other SW works to come. All Lucasfilm decisions will have been made with this purpose in mind. It's not about making a pile of cash from this one movie. It's about setting up a huge franchise across different mediums. Having this much at stake is what gives me confidence about the movie.

 

I see STAR WARS ep.XII pt1 & 2...

 

A lot of folks are jumping to way too many conclusions based on a single sentence that, knowing Lucas, could be read in quite a few ways. It's a kind of statement that lets anyone project their biggest hopes or worst fears onto it.

 

This whole thing with Lucas has been just another chapter in the weirdness and subtle drama over this whole movie. Let's look at a timeline.

October, 2012: Disney buys SW and Kennedy is pretty much handpicked to take over Lucasfilm by Lucas.

November, 2012: Arndt is hired to work with Lucas' outlines to create a script. Lucas supposedly had notes and basic ideas but no actual story.

January, 2013: Abrams hired as director-highly recommended by Spielberg and supposedly pursued heavily by Kennedy and even maybe Lucas himself.

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FOR 10 MONTHS

November 2013: Arndt leaves, Abrams and Kasdan take over writing. Arndt has never uttered a word about this so we really don't know the reasons.

April, 2014: Alan Horne, in an interview says "it's all about screenplay, screenplay, screenplay". He, in all honesty, acts like a TOTAL douche and never utters a word of positivity. He wants to fly out to go over the script with Abrams.

CAST ANNOUNCED and FILMING BEGINS

Summer, 2014: Abrupt and surprise announcement that Rian Johnson is taking over as director and writer for Episodes 8 and 9. NO mention of Abrams or Kasdan in any role including co-writer, producer, executive producer, etc.

In VERY SCANT interviews with Abrams, he sounds nervous and anxious more than excited and positive.This is blown off by people but there's certainly more to it.

Now: Lucas says his stories aren't being used at all and does not sound happy with it.

What does this mean? Sounds to me like Disney (Horn, Igor, etc) are the ones making things difficult for all involved.

 

I think the names and locations have been kept, but everything else has been changed. The fact Finn is being groomed as the "new Luke Skywalker" hints the ST is moving away from having a Skywalker/Solo as the main hero of the Saga. There are plenty of information of what the original ideas for the ST were about, all were built around the fact the main hero (not just the ST, but the whole Saga) was female and either Luke's sister or apprentice.

I also think this is the reason why Rebels have portrayed Ezra very, very strong in the Force - Disney are going to place their own mark on the Saga and begin to create more dominating characters and stories, much different to the PT and OT era.

 

I think the names and locations have been kept, but everything else has been changed. The fact Finn is being groomed as the "new Luke Skywalker" hints the ST is moving away from having a Skywalker/Solo as the main hero of the Saga. There are plenty of information of what the original ideas for the ST were about, all were built around the fact the main hero (not just the ST, but the whole Saga) was female and either Luke's sister or apprentice.

I also think this is the reason why Rebels have portrayed Ezra very, very strong in the Force - Disney are going to place their own mark on the Saga and begin to create more dominating characters and stories, much different to the PT and OT era.

 

Total Film reports that Lucas treatments ditched- they quote Lucas interview.

I'm glad about this because it means I can self contain Lucas' 6 films as the definitive Star Wars. I'll see the new ones in the same light I've looked at the EU/Legends- interesting possibilities. Better for Disney to go their own way. George should have done his own stories not someone else. I will give the new films an open appraisal- for me it's like a new slate.

 

You can find "subtle drama" in that if you so desire, but all I see is people overanalyzing the production process. It is not uncommon to have multiple writers working on a movie at various points. It is also completely normal for pre-production period to be silent in the media. The fact that we didn't get weekly updates for months is not so much a sign of production troubles, as it is of fans having an enormous feeling of entitlement and an alarming lack of patience. As for Rian Johnson, well it was never said that Abrams would direct the entire Trilogy, from what I recall. Johnson didn't "take over" but was hired to do the other two.

If you go out looking for reasons to be anxious, you are certain to find them, no matter if they are justified or not. In this case, I think they are not. This is a highly anticipated movie and people overanalyze every single bit of info that comes out (or doesn't come out), blowing everything out of proportion.

The latest Lucas statements just add fuel to that fire.

 

Agreed. Just look how many, myself included, reacted on these boards when Rebels first images and designs were released. We hated Ezra's character and thought the show was going to be too 'kiddy' - how wrong were we? the show is proving to be a worthy successor to TCW.

 

Yes, yes... to The Hellhammer you listen.

 

Yep that's it. TFA will be rubbish without GL's complete input. Lucas is after all the only person on the planet capable of making a good space fantasy movie. Oh well...RIP Star Wars.

 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that nobody outside of Hamil and Serkis have put forth any positive vibes from day 1. We have because WE are excited. Such cannot be said about anyone high up in the project though. Seems like the fans should be telling the writers, directors, and producers "hey, everything is going to be great and this movie will rock" because those folks involved need to take a course in how to verbally promote their own product. They suck at it and now Lucas said what he said.

I have no fear in how good the movie is going to be. The powers that be need to start acting the same way.

 

A significant minority of fans will welcome Lucas having zero input.

 

The Billions George got was NOT irrelevant. I sure bet he wouldn't have given the IP away.

But that's what a sale means... it isn't YOURS any longer. If you can't deal with that, don't sell it. Instead, step back, let someone else run the show, and be the final stamp of approval. George decided to sell. He should conduct himself gracefully, IMO, TBH, I think he's doing OK atm.

I am very excited by what I've seen of TFA so far, and frankly, I was kinda dreading a Lucas-helmed pic. I love George for his vision, but he became so big no one would call him on crappy ideas.

 

Indeed. That short sentence could amount to plenty of things, it really doesn't say much at all beyond that the original story-design didn't make it all the way through the end of the development process. Changes could range from a small change in focus in terms of characters, to a completely different story. Both completely fit the idea of "they don't use my original idea anymore", depending on what a person defines as something having changed to the point that it isn't the same for them anymore.

That anyone would use this little sentence as proof that "TFA is going to be awesome, because Lucas isn't involved" or "TFA is going to suck because they deviate from the real story" is a really weird approach and makes it look like the people who say these things aren't actually interested in what the movie will turn out to be.

Why do people repeat this bs again and again?
There is zero proof for that. On the contrary, Lucas is very well known for wanting everyone involved to give his opinion. Making-of material is full of quotes of people talking about things they would do differently. It sounds more like people looking for excuses to bash Lucas, because they can't come up with a proper reason why they dislike something but desperately need one. That's creating a theory and proceed to use it as the truth without ever checking whether there is even a tiny bit of truth behind it.

 

Dude, did you SEE Jar-Jar? Truly visionary film-making. And the Naboo love scenes? Inspired.

 

I saw the extra DVD material for the PT. Lucas was surrounded by yes men and women. There are a number of scenes where the people around Lucas LOOK like they want to say something, but when they do, it's all "yeah, George, it's great." And who can blame them? It's George Freakin' Lucas! The alternative is that peoiple thought Jar-Jar was a good idea. And that Hayden and Natalie had great chemistry (and that dialogue was awesome!).

I don't wanna be too hard on George. I've made my peace with the PT and actually enjoy them (despite the less worthy parts). I even like a good chunk of TPM, which I think is the weakest SW film by far. But I do think George took SW as far as HE could.

 

I think he's distancing himself from it because he feels like it's someone else's show now and to put an end to, what is probably, constant questions about the new film. I may not like, it may not even be factually true... but he probabaly said the right thing. All I would have liked is a wink to the camera and a hushed "it's ok kids... I still wrote the stories"... but oh well.

 

That's a pretty huge leap isn't it? Disney is well known for not taking full control of the creative process in things like this.

We really don't know much of anything on this. If there is anything Abrams is nervous about it is fans over analyzing every little thing and talking about it on the Internet.

This is the "silence on casting means Star Wars is doomed" all over again.

 

I was being sarcastic.

 

I think you are assuming that Lucas is bothered... but I'm sure he isn't at all really.

 

Oh I know.... I was sarcasting along with you.