Discussion George Lucas and the Mystery of the Treatment

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by Darth_Corvus, Aug 4, 2013.

  1. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    I agree... the currently open fates of some TCW characters are due to be addressed on Rebels, if anywhere.
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  2. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    TCW, and Rebels, plus the Phineas, and Ferb special will all be bringing in new people, TCW had between two to four million viewers weekly.
  3. Jedi Comedian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2012
    star 2
    19 million people saw Revenge of the Sith. In the US. In the first weekend.
  4. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    No doubt any treatment was made up on the go, and probably something Disney wanted. Highly doubtful they involved much of what was in scripts from 30 years ago.
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  5. Darth Claire Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2012
    star 4
    Yeah I kinda agree. I think they want us to believe its the same one so we can go "Well it was all part of the plan from the beginning" when in actuality it might have been something made months before signing the Lucasfilm --> Disney contract.
  6. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    We can all decide what we believe, but in reality, none of us really have anything to go on to support our beliefs. Anything that has been said over the years has also been contradicted at some point, and we were told repeatedly that an ST would never happen.

    Personally, I disagree with this, or should I say that I believe differently.
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  7. Darth Claire Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2012
    star 4
    Its kinda funny and sad to know that we will legit never have an answer to this question. We'll never know if the treatment was made months or decades before the sale. I bet we will hear tons of contradicting things. Some saying its the same one while others saying otherwise. I dont see this debate ever ending.
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  8. darthfettus2015 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 3
  9. Darth_Corvus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2010
    star 4
    10 years ago. Wanna bet that half of the audience will be people who never saw any of the movies and just some TCW episodes and a bit of EU(Kotor, SWTOR etc.)?
    This is what makes JJ's work so damn hard. His movie will define what star wars is, for a generation, he owes them a lot of responsibility. Perhaps more than to the old fans be it OT or PT.
    So to tie it to the other idea coming up, yes it would make sense for Abrams and co to disregard all the old treatments and use ideas that are hardly a year old since he has to find his own definition of star wars, but I doubt that nothing would be used from earlier drafts. Names and concepts dropped from one film, tend to come up in another.
  10. Jedi Comedian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2012
    star 2
    The point I was making was that you can't rely on people knowing enough about The Clone Wars (as in the series) to follow characters and plot points from it in the ST.

    But yes, I agree with what you're saying generally. Although, I don't know if "half" the audience will not have seen any of the movies - Star Wars is a massive phenomenon, and the recent Blu-ray set sold tremendously well. Probably plenty of parents will show their kids the old movies in anticipation.

    Your point about the ST having to stand up as Star Wars for a new generation is a very valid one.
    Darth_Corvus likes this.
  11. Gallandro Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    Actually a few months ago Pablo Hidalgo and a few others spilled the beans on this one. The treatment had been in development by Lucas for some time and ILM artists had been doing early pre-production work based on the treatments as early as 2009. This would coincide with rumors that began circulating the summer of 2009 that Lucas was developing a new trilogy. I know from interviews that Steven Sansweet had spoken to Lucas a number of times about the importance of further films in order to keep the franchise viable long term, and he was fairly certain there would be more films some time in the future.

    I suspect Lucas was willing to suck it up and oversee another trilogy with someone else at the helm, but Disney's offer was just too good and I'm sure as his relationship with Mellody Hobson got more serious he was more than ready to get on with the next stage of his life.


    Yancy
  12. Ganger Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 3
    Even if it is true and half of the audience is unfamiliar with Star Wars, it has nothing to do with continuity and loyalty to the movie universe, specially since it's kickstarting 30something years after the last one.

    Now, about The Clone Wars. I recently started watching a few episodes with extremely low expectations but actually thought it was pretty decent and well made. I'm not that into the visual design, the look of the characters, it feels like a 3D Dexter's lab spin off for me. But still, a lot of fun and well made. Still, I think it's ridiculous to think that any of it is going to affect the new trilogy. It's a side animated show aimed primarily at kids.
    Darth_Corvus likes this.
  13. GoJohnnyGo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2012
    star 1


    How do we know a good guy will come back? Is this confirmed anywhere? I have not heard this?

    Having Annakin or Ben come back from the PT to continue their roles would be interesting if they are able to make it work...
    MiamiJedi likes this.
  14. GoJohnnyGo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2012
    star 1
    Agree, because 30 years ago Harrsion Ford thought Han Solo should have died, does not mean 1) He feels that way now, especially if there are Solo kids taking lead roles 2) it's going to happen...

    I would think having Han Solo kick the bucket anytime before the end of episode 8 would be a fail...
  15. Darth_Corvus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2010
    star 4
    It was hinted by Lucas when discussing the sequel trilogy...before I was even born so it's old news. At that time ROTJ was Episode 3 and Lucas said that a good guy from Episode 3 will come back in the ST. Decades later, the PT comes and a few morons get the idea that the armless Mace Windu somehow survived all the lightning in the face, and the few kilometer fall after it to turn up more than half a century later in the ST.

    Johnny: Only a moron would enlist an A-class star for just a small cameo. Ford most probably will be around for quite a while in the ST only not as an action hero. Seeing any of the old 3 being a badass would look kinda stupid but Han doesn't even have the Force excuse to save him. But regardless of their role or how long they will appear, they WILL die. All three of them. The longest they will live is half-time of Episode IX. You cannot have the new heroes shine as long as the old ones are around and in the spotlight(whether it was intended or not).
    Last edited by Darth_Corvus, Aug 11, 2013
  16. Darkslayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2013
    star 4
    STOP IT! DO NOT GET MY HOPES UP!!! ^:)^
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  17. Jedirush2112 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2013
    star 3
    I've said it before and I'll say it again Han should eat it within the first 30 minutes of Episode VII. He should have the same basic life span of Channing Tatum in G.I. Joe Retaliation. Set his friendship up with the new characters and allow him to give his life for them. Luke should bite it in Episode IX after training Leia in Episode VIII.

    [face_thinking]
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  18. Darth_Corvus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2010
    star 4
    Well, for everyone his own, rush. Most of our wishes are incompatible. There is a huge group who wants the movies to be a huge middle finger to the EU and to those who didn't like the PT and the SE-changes. Many wish for the big 3 and Chewbacca to get out of the old trilogy alive. And that's not even getting into the spinoffs. Star Wars 7 will be the same as Harry Potter 7 was and Song of Ice and Fire 7 will be. Guaranteed to piss off most of the fans.
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  19. Darth PJ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2013
    star 4
    Well you may well be correct, but I'd dismiss The Clone Wars at your peril... many of the main plot points and characters were devised by Lucas. I'm pretty sure that, for example, if he really thought that the depiction of Mandalore worked well or that he loved the characters of Asoka or Cad Bane... it could well influence ideas for Episodes VII, VIII and IX. Also, audience reaction to The Clone Wars is a good gauge for characters/situations that may very work well in live action... be it nightsisters, resurrected Sith or gaggles of active bounty hunters.
  20. WatTamborWoo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2011
    star 3
    This is a good point. I do not think major characters from TCW will be part of the treatment (due to distance in time between TCW and ST and the focus being the Skywalkers). However there may be references to things in TCW like planets or races that were visualised in the series.
  21. Darkslayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2013
    star 4
    I loved Harry Potter 7... [face_whistling]
  22. Darth PJ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2013
    star 4
    Well I do agree... However, just to throw it out there, Lucas clearly made a choice to leave the fates of Asoka and Ventress unresolved. Two really good characters that are still out there for more EU related adventures or perhaps inclusion in a live action movie. Perhaps Anakin's force ghost asks Luke to find Asoka? Perhaps a Sith acolyte stumbles across an old Sith witch called Ventress :)
    Last edited by Darth PJ, Aug 13, 2013
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  23. Darth_Corvus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2010
    star 4
    Good for you. I didn't say nobody liked it. I said that It was guaranteed to piss off most of the fans. Everyone has his own ideas about who should die, how should Voldemort die, who should bang Hermione.
  24. TtheForceHurts Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2010
    star 3
    This is exactly what I was thinking. They could introduce them as new characters, you don't need their backstory, Anakin's force ghost might provide any info necessary. Though a lot of you might hate this idea, I would love to have Anakin tell Luke that he could not bring himself to kill his old padawan and he has hid her carbonfrozen in his secret castle (Ralph Mc Quarries concept art). This could even be portrayed in Rebels. That way we would have a young Ashoka (portrayed by Ashley Eckstein) and a great link for todays kiddies...
    Count Yubnub, klooney and Dra--- like this.
  25. TtheForceHurts Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2010
    star 3
    To further this thought:
    I think it is telling that GL has stated that his work on TCW refreshed his enthusiasm (after being drained by the PT and the mixed reception of it) and inspired him to write the ST in the first place, after he vowed that there would be no more movies.
    I wouldn't rule out the inclusion of TCW characters because only a fraction of the audience of the ST would have seen them.

    Remember when when you watched EPIV for the first time and Ben told Luke about his father and the clone wars. You were intrigued and fascinated for decades until you could watch the those events unfold onscreen.Ashokas survival could be explained in a similar way, the only difference would be that the interested viewer would not have to wait decades but could order the whole Bluray-Set immediately (even more profit for Disney), but it would not be mandatory.

    Imagine in EPVII when the galaxy is threatened again and the New Jedi Order needs all the help it can get, Anakin's ghost tells Luke that during the Clone Wars he had a headstrong padawan that left the order before the wars ended (explaining why she does not appear in the PT). Then he could tell him that in his dark days, when he hunted the last Jedi, he finally found her and tried to turn her to the dark side, but when she resisted he froze her in Carbonite, because he could not bring himself to kill her. As I said above, this could be a cool story ark in Rebels and could involve Vaders castle, which could be also be featured in EPVII. There Luke could not only find Ashoka, but have visions like in the Dagobah cave and could find relics (Palpatine holocron!!!). By the time that Vader froze Ashoka, a few years would have passed since TCW so she would be adult (making it possible for Eckstein to play her). Since I have not seen Season 5 yet (waiting for the Blurays), I cannot say what happened to Ventress (at the end of S4 she seemed to have turned from the dark side and became a bounty hunter) , so I cannot comment on her involvement, if she would be an ally or enemy. Even though Maul seems to have survived, I think his fate should be resolved in Rebels, because explaining his survival in EPVII would involve too much exposition (in contrast to Ashoka).
    klooney likes this.