ST George Lucas created the exiled Luke on Ach-To idea

It doesn't say explicitly but since it was before JJ even came aboard, I assume he knows since he was working in the story with Arndt throughout 2012.
Even If it didn't come from him specifically, at least he approved it I guess?

 

So likely the reveal of Ben=Jedi Killer and Jedi Killer murdering Han was in the Arndt outline? The TFA artbook has him finishing the outline for TFA in August 2013. Also according to TFA book, the stuff about the Jedi Killer being a Vader wannabe to mess with Luke is from JJ according to Alzmann who says Abrams got the idea from one of the pieces by the art team.

 

Can we guess that Luke probably would have been abit less of a mixture between Obi wan and Yoda in Georges version?

 

Also according to Pablo Hidalgo, the Jedi Killer was created in January 2013 in concept arts and got the Jedi Killer name in March 2013.

 

Yeah, so true. And I wonder if these same people will give credit to Lucas, for any of the good things in Episode VII, that he had no involvement in.

It's funny how all of a sudden Lucas is to blame for the way Luke was portrayed in TLJ; just because of the Doug Chiang comment in the Art of The Last Jedi book, about Lucas having an idea about Luke being in Exile on an island, and training a female Jedi student. To use an early Concept Art piece, that was Lucas's idea back when he was developing the ST (Pre-Disney sale), as "proof" that Rian Johnson was using Lucas's old discarded Treatments for Luke's story in TLJ, is ridiculous. Lucas could have come up with any number of different ways to handle Luke properly with this basic "Exile on an island" concept, when he was writing his Treatments. Heck, he might not of even used it in his Treatments at all; like when he had an early idea to have Han raised by Wookies on Kashyyyk (Concept Art from the Art of ROTS), and then later discarded that idea.

It's easy to blame George. But sorry, this is all on Rian Johnson.

 

Yeah, this update gets juicier all the time. How anyone angry about the setup of exiled Luke (and I’m not. I think Lucas was wise to conceive it) is pinning it all on Rian Johnson as though there wasn’t some plan here and that Rian just came in and said screw you to everyone and decided this course of action is crazy now.

 

From the book:

In December 2012, co-production designer Rick Carter (Jurassic Park, Forrest Gump, Avatar) and Lucasfilm VP/executive creative director Doug Chiang (The Polar Express, War of the Worlds [2005], Rogue One: A Star Wars Story) assembled a small but world-class team of "Visual-ists," concept artists and veteran Lucasfilm creatives who, alongside screenwriter Michael Arndt (Little Miss Sunshine, Toy Story 3), director J.J. Abrams (Mission Impossible III, Star Trek [2009], Super 8), and Lucasfilm development executive Kiri Hart and her Story Group, were tasked with dreaming the continuation of the Skywalker saga into being. But on January 9, 2013, one week prior to the very first meeting of the Visualists, Chiang, inspired by a few informal brain-storming sessions with Carter, painted portraits of an aged Luke Skywalker. Speaking in May 2013, Chiang recalled, "I did these four paintings of Luke. I just pulled some current-day images of Mark Hamill and repainted them. That became the jumping-off point for discussions on how we could bring back the old cast and what we could do with them."

Recounting the current version of The Force Awakens's back-story, Chiang continued, "After Return of the Jedi, when the Empire fell, Luke went through a period of turmoil. He decides to reform the Jedi, Luke being the last. So he creates his own Jedi academy and recruits people." One of Luke's pupils was the character then known as the "Jedi Killer." "Ultimately he turns against Luke. There's a big fight, and the Jedi Killer is wounded and cast aside. There's this big through-line of the Jedi Killer wanting revenge on Luke. And that's partly why he takes on this persona of Darth Vader: to haunt Luke."

Soon the remaining Visualist designers, including Erik Tiemens, Kurt Kaufman, Christian Alzmann, Yanick Dusseault, Iain McCaig, and, working remotely from Los Angeles, James Clyne, followed in Chiang's footsteps in preparation for a January 16 meeting with Star Wars creator George Lucas (THX-1138, American Graffiti) at Skywalker Ranch. Among the pieces presented at the ranch's Main House were additional portraits of Luke, the temple where he dwelled in exile, and the training of a young disciple Kira, later renamed Rey.

"At this point in the story, thirty years after the fall of the Empire, Luke has gone to a dark place," Chiang said. "He always had this potential dark side within him, being that his father was Darth Vader. So he is really struggling with that. He ended up secluding himself in this Jedi temple on a new planet, and he's just there meditating, reassessing his whole life. Gradually, over the arc of the movie, he rediscovers his vitality and comes back to himself." But as the film evolved, Arndt realized that Luke Skywalker would better serve the needs of the story as the person that everyone seeks but does not find until The Force Awakens's final scene. The plot points of an ancient temple and Rey's training there would be temporarily shelved. Additionally, Han Solo, now reintroduced at the start of the second act of the film, would have more time to shine. For the first time in a Star Wars story, Han would fill the mythological archetype of the mentor for Rey, as Obi-Wan Kenobi did for Luke in A New Hope. The Force Awakens would also be a victory lap, of sorts, for both the character and for Harrison Ford, the actor who first portrayed him thirty-eight years prior.

In late summer 2013, the Visualists were let in on two secrets that would not be revealed to the rest of the world for another year and a half: that the beloved Han Solo would meet his end in The Force Awakens, dispatched by the malevolent Jedi Killer---and that the Jedi Killer would be Han and Leia Organa's son. "This was big," Christian Alzmann said in September of 2013. "We found out that, at essentially the same running time in A New Hope when Obi-Wan gets killed, Han will get killed by the Jedi Killer---by his son! That's super-Biblical stuff, heavy stuff! I had a feeling that Harrison would love it; he's wanted Han to die for a while.

 

In the original concept by Lucas, Luke was and I quote:

Reassessing his whole life and dealing with his Dark Side doesn't translate to intending to die off that RJ used. He just needed time to refocus and not give yet.

Additionally, it becomes clear that the Jedi Killer shoots first rather than Luke. That's better than trying to make Luke strike first in TLJ.

And furthermore, Luke actually trains Rey.

Luke being in exile works if there is a good enough catalyst for it. Unfortunately, RJ fails to deliver and made Luke look bad in the worst way possible with him trying to kill Ben in his sleep (a classic Greedo shoots first for an "anti-villain/hero").

 

Yeah, in TLJ Luke cuts himself off completely from the Force. That doesn't seem to be the case in Luca's version.

 

Impressive, but I prefer words over memes. Let us remember that you need a transition of character development for Luke that doesn't become jarring. What I still recall that RJ had Luke ignites his lightsaber at Ben in order to make Ben Solo look sympathetic for Rey to trust.

Regardless, concept arts change over time and ultimately, the one responsible for the final product is Rian Johnson not George Lucas.

 

Luke in exile is a GREAT idea. Finding him in the last scene of Episode 7 as a climax is an even better idea.

Changing Luke's character and having him die without fighting for the Rebels again are bad ideas.

Episode 8 dragged out his hermit phase too long (Train me...no! Train me...no! etc etc), and they changed Luke's hopeful character in the process.

Act 2 should have begun with Luke and Rey leaving the island together on an adventure (maybe a First Order probe lands on the island, or the KoR show up, sent by Kylo), they defend themselves and escape, and Luke teaches her some force lessons along the way, culminating in Luke wrecking shop on Crait, dismantling the walkers and tons of stormtroopers, while Finn takes out Phasma...This gives Leia and the Rebels time to escape as Poe leads them to safety through the mines using his smarts instead of his brashness...

Meanwhile, Rey and Kylo appear before Snoke orbiting above the planet. Kylo betrays and kills Snoke, Kylo and Rey team up to defeat the guards, and then, as Luke, Leia and the Rebels escape Crait on the Falcon, the cliffhanger is will Rey and Kylo team up? Luke saved the day, but did he lose another student in the process?

What will Rey and Kylo decide in the throne room of Snoke's ship now that Snoke is dead???...IRIS OUT.

Lots of reasons could have been written for Luke to be on the island at the first temple in solace without changing Luke's character. So frustrating.

 

He nearly killed his father.

 

Out of blind rage, anger and fury. After Vader taunts him with corrupting his sister. And the Emperor goading him to give into the Dark Side. And after a long game of mind games with Sidious' method of breaking people. Not exactly the same situation as deciding to ignite a lightsaber in front of a sleeping Ben.

 

Well, he says he is there to die. But honestly, I think he went there for answers and found none that were satisfactory. That was his real reason for going there. His X-Wing is wrecked and he can’t leave if he wanted to.

He had had time there to mull it over and grow more bitter.

 

True. But if you read the quote from the Art book he still has his dark side I’m him. As Vader was his father. So it seems plausible to me that he wanted to stop the family curse.

Grear find! This is from the Art of TFA? Anyone have anything from The Art of TLJ?

 

You're right, it's probably a lot more shocking to learn that your nephew may burn down your temple, kill your friends and family and join a Nazi group, especially given the pressure on your shoulders for this not to happen.

 

Which is why it is necessary to show the decline of Luke and Ben's happy relationship in the actual movie since we are not going to get prequel movies for them. When Anakin fell to the Dark Side, Lucas portrays it as a gradual decline to evil starting with the murder of Count Dooku and we see the deterioration of his relationships with everyone else except Palpatine. The decline would show how Luke went from happiness to panic to bitterness. And not make Luke look dumb for falling into a future vision trap that could happen for many audience members.

Judging from Lucas' treatment, it seemed that Luke's Dark Side temptation happened during his actual fight with Jedi Killer when the Academy burned down. Which fits more into the character of Luke than a preemptive decision on a sleeping Ben Solo. In fact, Lucas' original idea reminds me of how Samurai Jack gave into the darkness temporarily in Season 5.

 

Why does it need to be a gradual decline. Why can't Luke be just appropriately shocked in that moment? Why would he need a slow decline into darkness to be shocked and react that way? It's simply an unnecessary thing to want from the storytellers.

 

Luke can leave on the Falcon with Chewie and Rey.
Also, he could most likely use the Force to raise his X-Wing from the water and fly it wherever he wants. It was pulled from a really dirty swamp after a few weeks and worked just fine. I'm sure with movie logic it could be pulled from a clean water inlet after a year in water and be fine as well. Audiences would buy it. It's a high tech space ship not a Chevy pickup.

 

The same reason why Lucas didn't just have Anakin do one dark deed (killing Count Dooku) and then he's suddenly completely into the Dark Side. A gradual decline would show the happier times Luke had with Ben and others (come to think about it, I don't recall Luke ever really be happy), how Luke's noble personality in ROTJ was being eroded away along with Ben Solo's goodness, which sets up the shocking twist that Rey sees first. Because many fans here need to know how ROTJ Luke became TLJ Luke and we don't have the sequel-prequels to flesh it out (PT showed just how painful it was for Obi-Wan to fight Anakin and why it was understandable he would lie to Luke in ANH).

 

Well, I mean you’re assuming that it isn’t beyond repair. Water damage alone may not be all that is wrong with it. I believe he would raise it out at least if it worked so it wasn’t you know... just sunken in water slowly being destroyed.

Besides that, I believe he went there for answers. Not to die. Why would he go to the site of the first Jedi temple just to die? He’s only saying that because he’s mad at himself and doesn’t want to leave with Chewie and Rey because he believes he is nothing but trouble.

Yoda helps him forgive himself. If he really wanted to burn the Jedi books he wouldn’t have stopped himself immediately after and then ask Yoda, “so it really is time for the Jedi to end?” He’s just saying that because he is being the same wishy washy person who gave up on lifting an X-Wing out of swamp water.

 

It is completely within his ROTJ character to act the way he did. You're acting like Luke is now evil and the equivalent of Vader and Dooku, which simply isn't the case. He didn't actually try and murder Ben.

Let's take Superman for a minute. Imagine Superman received a vision of Batman destroyed the world through some type of genocidal rampage. It would be natural for Superman, momentarily, to consider stopping it for the greater good, and his eyes would glow red. And then, naturally, he would stop himself. This is the natural reaction for even the most nobel of characters.

You don't want Luke to be nobel - rather you want him to be above that. To reason before he has even had a natural reaction to something. You want him to, essentially, be above being human.

TLJ Luke is far more compassionate and wise than that. He doesn't kill a single person, and yet does more for the Rebel cause then he could ever have done just 'smashing walkers and stormtroopers'.

 

Superman would be shocked but wouldn't glow his eyes at Batman in an instant. He would sit down and ponder about it. He would try to talk to Bruce. Try to reason with him. Perhaps a stern talk and crossed arms. But never glowing eyes of heat vision. If he must attack Batman, it would be out of anger and rage. Something that Luke Skywalker shares considering what Sidious used to goad him with. Sidious didn't want Luke to strike him to save the world. Sidious wanted Luke to strike him down out of anger and hatred for him.

 

"Recounting the current version of The Force Awakens's back-story, Chiang continued, "After Return of the Jedi, when the Empire fell, Luke went through a period of turmoil. He decides to reform the Jedi, Luke being the last. So he creates his own Jedi academy and recruits people." One of Luke's pupils was the character then known as the "Jedi Killer." "Ultimately he turns against Luke. There's a big fight, and the Jedi Killer is wounded and cast aside. There's this big through-line of the Jedi Killer wanting revenge on Luke. And that's partly why he takes on this persona of Darth Vader: to haunt Luke."

Kind of interesting. Reminiscent of the Amadeus movie.