George Lucas IS Orson Welles: Could AOTC be Citizen Kane?

nm

 

Acting and dialogue is not everything

"It's the only thing!"

No it isn't Tokyo, it really isn't. Maybe in a stageplay it is, but not in film. The acting and dialogue is important in certain types of films, yes, but Star Wars isn't one of them.

Kubrick knew this better than anyone. Compare and contrast Dr. Strangelove with 2001. In the first film, which is a satire, dialogue and acting is vitally important (incidently, the correct quote is "You can't fight in here! This is the war room!"). 2001, on the other hand, is an audio-visual experience designed to provoke debate about mankind's origins through the use of images rather than words. That's why there's no dialogue for the first 20 minutes, and much of the dialogue that comes after that is deliberately bland. I know many people who find 2001 boring, most likely because of the machine-like dialogue and cold performances. But that's exactly what Kubrick intended, and it works perfectly for the film's theme of mankind's alienation in the face of technology.

On a different level, the dialogue in Star Wars is also exactly what Lucas intends it to be, namely a homage to the corny lines found in old adventure serials where dialogue is mainly used to advance the plot rather than help characterisation.


Is that pretentious enough for ya?

 

Well said.

 

Um, terrible analogy there. 2001 had nearly endless moments where there was no dialogue or no sound at all. The PT movies are filled, wall to wall with sound and dialogue. And of course HAL sounds the way he sounds because hes NOT human. In SW, the droids "speak" like humans (this, according to Lucas, makes them "amusing").

Kubrick was criticized for not having enough sound and dialogue. Lucas has plenty of dialogue in his PT, it just sucks.

Work on those comparisons Darth.

And someday, if you work real hard, your writing may actually rise to a level where it might be considered PRETENTIOUS. Not an admirable goal, but a goal nonetheless.

 

Dahveed, did you say something? I wasn't listening. Work on that post construction, my friend

 

And someday, if you work real hard, your writing may actually rise to a level where it might be considered PRETENTIOUS. Not an admirable goal, but a goal nonetheless.


just coldhearted man.

 

Oh, and Dahveed, if you read my post, I wasn't suggesting 2001 had the same dialogue as AOTC. I was pointing out that the dialogue in 2001 was intended to be cold and machine-like, whereas the dialogue in AOTC (and all the Star Wars films) is intended to be corny and OTT. It's the same in principle, and both directors have been bashed for their approach (I know many people who give up watching 2001 after half an hour because they just find the dialogue too dull).
Don't belive that Lucas thinks he is writing Shakespeare for a second.

 

Shakespearean plays are multilayered works written for a wide, populist audience that spanned several demographics. The same can be said about Star Wars, ESB, and ROTJ.

TPM appeared to be custom crafted for young children, perhaps the biggest market for ten trillion Jar-Jar Binks action figures (still 10 cents each at Toys 'R Us). As far as AOTC... well, yeah, it certainly wasn't Shakespeare, was it? The only sentence with any rhythm or meter that I remember was "Machines making machines... how preverse."

 

"Arizona Bay"? Bah, you Bill Hicks gusher! Any true fan would tell you that AB is vastly inferior to "Relentless" and "Rant in E-Minor".

Any, whilst I agree with DarthHomer that GL deliberately wants the dialogue in the SW films to be corny and OTT at times, there are times when he wants it to be understated; there are times when he wants the dialogue to be taken seriously, and not be laughed at, or have the audinece roll their eyes at it.

And I don't suppose he ever wants the dialogue to be bad, but that is what I feel a lot of the dialogue in AOTC is. Bad.

And Shakespeare wrote a lot of rubbish too. The Winter's tale? Henry VIII? Oh, brother. Put the quill down, Billy, and back away from the writing desk with your hands up!

 

[image=http://www.rodserling.com/images/default1.jpg]

Dee-Dee Dee-Dee Dee-Dee Dee-Dee
Dee-Dee Dee-Dee Dee-Dee Dee-Dee

You unlock this thread without any imagination...

Beyond it is a lack of dimension...

A dimension of slights...

A dimension of clowns...

A dimension of whines...

You're moving into an area of much shadow, but no substance...

Of things, but not ideas...

At the signpost up ahead, your next stop: The Basher Zone...

Dum-Dum Dum-Dum Dah-Dah-Dah-DAH

 

OK rsterling, we get it already. Give it a rest.

 

Hmmm, if I criticise rsterling78 for his not-up-to-his-usual-standard-humourous-bash-at-bashers, does that make me the queen of all bashers?

I'd be bashing a basher basher! That would be like, bashing cubed!

Although...maybe bashes cancel each other out?

Hmmm...what if someone bashed my bash? If I bashed a guy who gushed about a gusher bashing a basher for gushing about a basher who gushed about the OT, would I be a gusher or a basher?

This is making me brain ache.

 

Somwrimes I feel ashamed to be a Str Wars fan.

 

Im reasonably sure Jurassic Park doesnt qualify as GREAT ART. Im also reasoably sure the sun will rise tomorrow. whatever...

oh and i think gushers in general should keep their use of analogies to a minimum. which is why this thread is so silly.

 

i may write without caps, but you will never see me post a hacky rewrite of the TZ intro like that. whats next, song parodies? or maybe we can have you cut and paste some email jokes with star wars characters names inserted.

now thats bad writing! im beside myself! meesa poo-poo in my pantsa! time to go make up some more clever names like "elan sleazebaggano"!

 

...r o s e b u d ....

 

Witch Doctor

I told the witch doctor I was in love with you
I told the witch doctor you didn't love me too
And then the witch doctor, he told me what to doHe said that ....
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang...
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
I told the witch doctor you didn't love me true
I told the witch doctor you didn't love me nice
And then the witch doctor, he game me this adviceHe said to ...
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang...
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Now, you've been keeping love from meJust like you were a miser
And I'll admit I wasn't very smartSo I went out and found myself
A guy that's so much wiserAnd he taught me the way to win your heart
My friend the witch doctor, he taught me what to say
My friend the witch doctor, he taught me what to do
I know that you'll be mine when I say this to youOh, Baby ....
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang...
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang

[image=http://www.geocities.com/ohtoad/Qsl1.gif]

 

100th Post!

"Dont all thank me at once"

 

Oh for goodness sake. I wish people would stop shouting BASHER at someone who dares to criticise AOTC. If someone says that AOTC is a bad film, and they give their reasons on why the film is bad, the idea is you respond on why you think AOTC is good, and come up with counter-arguments. The whole "he's a whingey basher" is kinda old and boring.

Some people liked AOTC, some didnt, discuss it. Thats the whole point of this message board i.e. its a message board where people can post up messages on AOTC, what they thought on the film, what they like, and what they dont like.
Unfortunately however, some of the people who are big fans of AOTC (AKA Gushers) seem to take criticism personally and start flaming other people for being "bashers". Oh grow up! if you cant respond to criticism then its the "gushers" that should get the hell off this message board and stop getting in the way for the mature debaters that want to discuss their point of view.

Anyway, back to the discussion of the corny dialogue. I think DarthHomer has a point, in that some of the dialogue in Star Wars is supposed to be a little cheesy because its in the vein of a saturday morning seriel. I can understand things like that when we have Han Solo in the cockpit of the Millenium Falcon shouting about the navicomputer, however I was led to believe that AOTC would feature a doomed romance, so surely the dialogue for a romance like that has to have some amount of weight to it, otherwise it wont be convincing. Is AOTC trying to be Romeo and Juliet or is it trying to be flash gordon?? Discuss.......

 

"its the "gushers" that should get the hell off this message board and stop getting in the way for the mature debaters that want to discuss their point of view." -Draculas_guest

"im beside myself! meesa poo-poo in my pantsa!" -DrEvazan

"I think DarthHomer has a point, in that some of the dialogue in Star Wars is supposed to be a little cheesy because its in the vein of a saturday morning seriel." -Draculas_guest

Oh, okay. So the "debate" is whether the dialog is a failed attempt at Shakespeare or a successful attempt at B-movie schlock.

LOL!

By the way, "saturday" is usually capitalized and it's "serial," not "seriel."

LOL again!

*leans back in chair and waits for trite "content matters more than grammar and spelling" response*

 

all yeu bahers go awy!

 

Oh for Gods sake Rsterling, whats your problem. You've just proved my point. I tried to steer the conversation back onto the subject on the corny dialogue (i.e. Lucas intention on using corny dialogue) and you just threw it back in my face. How the hell am I supposed to take any of your comments seriously now?
Seriously though, if someone actually wants to add something of meaning to this thread, then by all means, do so. (Whether its about corny acting, directing, writing etc.)

EDIT:
Oh, okay. So the "debate" is whether the dialog is a failed attempt at Shakespeare or a successful attempt at B-movie schlock.


DarthHomer was debating with someone about the dialogue in AOTC, I merely expressed that I thought DarthHomer had a reasonable point in his post. Whats the problem?

 

*leans back in chair and waits for trite "content matters more than grammar and spelling" response*

but thats not a trite response. you dont seem to have anything to say about the topic, you dont seem to have any real response to opinions, so you just gripe about grammar and caps. that has NOTHING to do with the discussion or the validity of opinions.

i find the dialogue to be an attempt at classic literature AND saturday morning serial writing styles. unfortunately, i think it fails at being either, and ends up sounding silly, contrived, clumsy and juvenile.

 

DrEvazan,

All kidding aside, I have a question for you. Was there anything about AOTC you liked? Anything? (Besides the end credits). A line of dialog. A special effect. Something, anything? ?