PT George Lucas, Post-ROTJ, states beautifully why the Prequels were necessary

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Han Burgundy, Oct 5, 2013.

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  1. drg4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 4
    That's irrelevant to me. Regardless of whether Anakin is the Saga's redeemed Chosen One or ROTJ's redeemed villain, he's still redeemed. And that was a mistake on Lucas's part. We should never have been given a glimpse of Anakin in ghost form. All it says is that a mass-murderer, torturer, sadist (and yes, child killer, which I had already suspected based on his despicable nature in ANH and TESB) ascended to Jedi Heaven just for saving his own kid's life.

    The redemption sucked in '83, and it still sucks now.
  2. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    There's no real evidence of this. In fact, we hear that Qui-Gon ( as a ghost example ) has "returned".
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Oct 14, 2013
  3. Carbon1985 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2013
    star 3
    Lucas should have only had Kenobi and Yoda as force ghosts that Luke see's at the end of ROTJ, that way we would all look at Anakin's redemption a much different way. He saved his son, he killed The Emperor, he talked to his son without his mask on, but he was not redeemed as a force ghost like Yoda and Kenobi so there is a consequence to your actions. The final image of Vader dying in the bonfire funeral as Luke looked on would have worked much better.
    MOC Yak Face likes this.
  4. Darkslayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2013
    star 4
    I could listen to George talk all day
  5. drg4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 4
    Beautifully stated, Carbon 1985. Actions carry consequences.

    It's absolutely frustrating that Lucas and Co. could have ended the series with gentle, noble ambiguity, rather than the morally-queasy sentimentality that drips through the coda. "And Darth Vader lived happily ever after..."
  6. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    [IMG]
    Like dying, for example.
    [IMG]
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Oct 14, 2013
  7. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    I'm no expert as I don't share this belief, but my understanding is that in Christianity--or Catholicism, anyway--if you repent & accept Jesus, you're going to go to heaven, regardless of your crimes. Anakin turned to "the light," so he gets redeemed. Very similar thing.
  8. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Everyone who dies transforms into the Force, not just good guys. There is no heaven, just the "netherworld".
    Retaining your identity as a ghost, on the other hand, is a special thing - though I'd argue that it isn't all that great. It should get tedious after a while, since you can't do much more than talk to Force users. Eventually, you'll want to just let go and move on to the netherworld of the Force.
    Anakin's ultimate fate isn't any greater than yours or mine, when you think about it.





    - Where is Padmé?
    - Destroyed, by the Empire.

    /LM
  9. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Which is why I'd think it'd be interesting if part the ST took place in the "netherworld".
  10. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    It's not just that he saved Luke's life, but that he had been a good man once before he did all of that. Luke helped Anakin to free himself from the shackles of the evil that he had become and return to being the good man that he was again. Obi-wan and Yoda helped Anakin to regain his corporal form so that Luke could see the end result of what he had accomplished.

    In the rough draft…Ben explains that…if "Vader becomes one with the dark side of the Force, he will lose all identity. If he turns to the good side, he will pass through the Netherworld" and in the revised rough draft, Yoda "will rescue him before he becomes one with the Force."

    --Lorenzo Bouzereau, explanation from Star Wars The Annotated Screenplays page 300.

    "This little scene where he burns his father's body, it wasn't originally in the script. But I decided it gave more closure in terms of Luke's relationship to his father, letting go of his father. Even though later on, as we get to the end of the movie, as he joins the Force, he was able to retain his original identity, it's because of Obi-Wan and Yoda, who learnt how to do that: how to join the Force at will and then retain your identity. But it was his 'identity as he was when he died as Anakin Skywalker.'"

    --George Lucas, ROTJ DVD Commentary.


    Actually, you can blame someone else for that. It was Howard Kazanjian who came up with the idea in the first place, of having Anakin be with the others and that lead to Lucas ultimately embracing the idea.

    Not just that, but it is in other religious forms.

    "In addition to the Zen-like Force that "surrounds us and penetrates us...(and) binds the galaxy together," as Obi-wan tells Luke, another Eastern religious element can be found in Vader's resemblance to demons that, in the Buddhist tradition, were at one time human and, through the actions of Buddha or his followers, are freed from their demonic state.

    They usually wind up dying and through death are released from their demonic state. Again, that's a parallel to Vader, who is only freed at the point of his death."

    --Shanti Fader, USA Today article and "Star Wars And Philosophy."
  11. Son of a Bith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    star 4
    Guest appearance by Beetlejuice!!
  12. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    You and me both, IATI!





    - Can I have one of those?
    - Hmm! Not likely.

    /LM
  13. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Oh you mean Palpatine?
  14. Son of a Bith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    star 4
    So that's his first name.
    TOSCHESTATION likes this.
  15. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    No his name is Paul. Paul Franklin Palpatine
  16. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    His first name was something so ****ing awful that it made him to turn to the Dark Side and Force-lightning anyone who ever mentioned it.

    Fill in the blank here.
  17. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Harry Plinkett.
  18. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Star Wars is sort of meant to be a fairy tale; and ROTJ is the fairy-tale ending.

    Darth Vader is a cosmogenic entity that only lives if you watch I-VI on a loop.

    Following these propositions, it's acceptable, even desirable, that Anakin gets a shot at immortality, once he has journeyed to the underworld and back.

    That's my take, anyway.


    Fire and water.

    Anima/animus.

    Nice.
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  19. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Leslie? Francis?
  20. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6

    Bob
  21. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    "A Boy Named________"

    (Johnny Cash reference)
  22. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
  23. El Jedi Colombiano Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2013
    star 2
    Sue
  24. Darkslayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2013
    star 4
    Your logic has completely won this thread. ^:)^
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  25. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Which will we get first, Yoda's species or Sid's real first name?:p
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