Saga George Lucas retiring from SW films (What does this mean for the future of SW?)

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by fistofan1, Jan 17, 2012.

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  1. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    "What you actively participate in is a pathetically ignorant, shockingly hollow, morally bankrupt, blind hate trend."
    Sounds Pretty accusatory to me. Yet I note that mods don't give him trouble...
    Drewton and Esg like this.
  2. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    I just want to point out that it sounded as if this comment: "What you actively participate in is a pathetically ignorant, shockingly hollow, morally bankrupt, blind hate trend" was angled at anyone who expresses any kind of negativity or criticism towards the SW films, not just the extreme bashers. That's how I took it, anyway, and I take offense to that. I'm not blindly jumping on some bandwagon simply to be 'cool.' I have some genuine criticisms about the films and there are things that I plain just don't like. How does that make me wrong?

    I'm sorry, but there are two sides of every coin and this mentality that it's okay to put down other SW fans because their opinion differs from yours needs to stop. How about we focus on the things we enjoy instead of all the hate?

    Back on topic and putting those words into action: Lucas is retiring? Well, I'm thankful that he gave us the OT and that he started the SW Saga in the first place. I wish him the best of luck with whatever he decides to work on beyond Lucasfilm and SW.
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  3. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I didn't say that so I can't help with a response. I don't think an opinion on a film is "wrong," and I also don't think that it's OK to tell another poster that her opinion isn't important, nor do I think that the insults and yes, sheer hatred thrown in Lucas' direction are acceptable. If you haven't participated in calling Lucas ugly names, accusing other fans of being Lucas shills, or at the worst extreme, threatening Lucas and his family for not putting the OOT on Blu-Ray--fantastic. That's the behavior that is wrong, not disliking parts of the saga.

    Absolutely.

    This is the response that all if us should have; it's refreshing amongst the "he's a hack and should have quit 20 years ago" levels of nastiness.
    eht13 likes this.
  4. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Cool it down. This is your second Films, not fans warning in two days. Next time comes with a short vacation.

    And obi-rob kenobi4, the same warning goes to you also:
    What you actively participate in is a pathetically ignorant, shockingly hollow, morally bankrupt, blind hate trend.

    Chill out.
    Last edited by ShaneP, Sep 14, 2012
  5. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    [quote="fistofan1, post: 32046604, member: 1358546] What effects do you guys think the Maker's departure from Star Wars will have on the franchise as a whole?


    Mod Edit: Changed title.[/quote]

    Well, no disrespect intended to Lucas, but I think this means we will see some fresh input, and hopefully, a revitalization of the franchise. It depends on the people who end up having creative control.

    Give me the job! :)
  6. Drewton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2009
    star 4
    Even though you're completely wrong, I'm assuming you mean 2006?
    Last edited by Drewton, Sep 14, 2012
  7. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Just to clarify, I brought up such examples simply because Heero_Yuy mentioned in a (now deleted) post that what Lucas had done to the OOT was unprecedented. Now, I can certainly understand holding the opinion that every form of an art work deserves to be preserved (regardless of authorial intent), but I didn't think that Lucas had done anything new in the history of art. Likewise, while I sympathize with the OOT fans' desire to see the original version released, I also don't think it warrants personal attacks on Lucas that a small (but unfortunately loud) minority of OOT fans makes. And one rarely, for example, sees Tolkien insulted for the fact that he did not re-release the original version of the Hobbit in his lifetime.

    But to return to the question at hand: for me, there is no Star Wars without Lucas. That would be like having Harry Potter without J.K. Rowling. And while I certainly think that there have been many great contributions to the EU by authors, video game developers, etc, I don't consider it part of my personal Star Wars canon.
  8. Drewton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2009
    star 4
    Actually, when the OOT was released on DVD, HDTVs did in fact exist and so did Blu-ray.

    I like how you feel the need to demonize every one who wants a different version of a movie by claiming they all illegally downloaded it. Little punks? Hipsters? Criminals? Talk about insecurity.

    [IMG]

    obi-rob-kenobi, I'm sorry, but I'm so sick of this kind of posting and I've got to say something. Stop act like you're being persecuted, when you're the one demonizing a group of people who have different opinions on the movie. I can appreciate your love of the films but not your attitude in your posts. If you want to stick it to the haters, try showing less hate yourself. You're no better than them if all you do is post hateful posts against groups of fans. When you constantly go on tirades that these fans are so evil - that they're pirates, they dislike certain films because they're going along with some punk trend, that this is all a conspiracy - you're not going to convince anyone. You just come off as being obsessed and delusional.

    I hope you'd take this constructively, I truly do. We can all get along peacefully here, if we can stop being so hateful towards each other. Also:

    "IT'S JUST A MOVIE." - George Lucas
    Last edited by Drewton, Sep 14, 2012
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  9. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    I love how you frame me as the obsessed one. When the ones who are obsessed are the ones who STILL to this day after all these years and all the attention they (wrongly and undeservedly) get still take any and every chance to trash, slander, attack, obstruct and completely boycott anything and everything with Lucas's name attached to it. If you want to keep feeding and rewarding and tolerating this tired trend, this mob mentality then thats your choice. What a wonderful and constructive way to spend ones time. But not me! The more time I see going by the more I see that this is simply nothing more than a pathetic witch hunt, a retro hipster fad with nowhere to go. Thats more of an absolute ZERO tolerance I take with it.

    George Lucas owes you nothing.

    You want to talk about what YOUR sick of seeing? Oh really? Ya wanna know what I am sick of seeing? Im sick of not being able to simply google anything star wars related without seeing hate and all out propaganda by a mobs of angry young males. Im sick of seeing every and any comment section with people who are not even fans adopting all the tired hateful soundbites just to sound "hip" or "in the know". Its pathetic and its a crying shame.

    George Lucas made a wonderful, timeless 6 films Saga to give little kids hope and to teach good morals and entertain the young and the young at heart. He donates half of all his money to charity while putting the other half right back into the film industry pioneering and inventing every technique and technology used to give us basically every summer action blockbuster released today. People can learn about this and learn about these wonderful and special films but they dont anymore. Nope. Thats not whats important anymore. Not whats "hip". Not to them. The only thing thats important anymore is learning about "han shot first guyz!" and "F*** you Lucas!" and the rest of the typical soundbites that hateboys are oh so proud of having invented. What a pathetic shame.

    So im oh so sorry that you (or anyone else) might have to put up with seeing someone defend these films and this brilliant artist who created them but all I have to say is that im not the bad guy. No. The people who smugly boycott and obstruct and slander anything SW every day are the ones who you should have a problem with. I will never apologies for defending SW.

    And Yes, it is "JUST A MOVIE". I agree. Too bad more people dont take that advise. Instead we have people running around with "han shot first" t-shirts in the year 2012. Again not my fault or lucas's fault. Come to think of it I wonder what prompted Lucas to make that quote in the first place? Hmmm? I wonder.
    Last edited by obi-rob-kenobi4, Sep 15, 2012
  10. Drewton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2009
    star 4
    Yeah, I've seen your zero tolerance policy. Anything or anyone that has a hint of dislike for a part of the prequels, even if they want to say which trilogy is better, and you go on a rant about a "hater complex". I've seen better discussions with a lot of "haters" that I've talked with, who are at least able to acknowledge other people's opinions. You just can't see how anyone or at least most people can actually make up their own minds to dislike the prequels, that they're just following a trend.

    How would you like it if I said you only liked the prequels because you were just a brainless gusher who just accepted everything? That's like what you're simplifying everyone else too.

    Where did I say George Lucas owed me anything? Or are you making assumptions and lumping me in with the "hateboys"?

    Defending the films, I have no problem with. I defend the films to many people on the forum and off the forum myself. I went to Celebration VI. It's bashing fans, which you do all the time, that I have a problem with. Films, not fans. Yes, there are many extreme haters, the problem is you lump everyone together who dislikes anything about Star Wars. Is anyone who has a "Han Shot First" a "Star Wars hater", just because they dislike the special editions? Another version of the film they love? Really? If some fans prefer are more interested in a different area of Star Wars, like video games, you call them "so called fans". Who are you to decide what a true fan is?

    You're never going to convince any of these people by more hate. You're always using tired hateful soundbites yourself. It's not constructive. It's the worst way to defend Star Wars I can think of, it just feeds "gusher vs hater" wars.

    By the way, you called the special editions the "finished version of the movie" - according to George Lucas, they are never finished. And the OOT DVDs being the best quality possible, again, is absolutely wrong.
    Last edited by Drewton, Sep 15, 2012
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  11. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    To put it in another way... The Bayformers trilogy gets a lot of flack on the Internet in boards, YouTube videos, etc. Am I to assume that ALL of that is also just propaganda and blind hate? Just some agenda to hate on poor Michael Bay? Or are there valid reasons his films get criticism?
    Drewton likes this.
  12. Drewton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2009
    star 4
    But Transformers 3 made over a billion dollars, so clearly everyone loves it and all the Bay hateboys are pretentious little snots. :p
    Last edited by Drewton, Sep 15, 2012
  13. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I think the argument that a movie made a certain amount of money is used to counter the argument that "no one" liked the movie, and I've seen that level of absolutism applied to the prequels. It drives me nuts in any argument, the claim that one can speak for "everyone" or "most people" or "everyone who saw the OT on its original run". Criticism of the films doesn't bother me, nor do OOT requests that don't involve insults or threats to Lucas, but the arrogance of "everyone with taste shares my opinion" is annoying.
  14. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    @anakinfansince1983

    I completely agree. I think the biggest key point that all sides need to remember is that one can disagree without being disagreeable. There's no accounting for taste, after all.

    In regards to what will happen to Star Wars following Lucas' retirement, I think it will still have a strong fanbase. There are plenty of kids that love the universe and use it as their playground to have their own adventures. And regardless of how many fans are maintained, I'll always love it. Personally, I don't look at the new entries to get my Star Wars fix. I just enjoy the movies for what they are.
    Last edited by PiettsHat, Sep 15, 2012
  15. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4

    You misunderstand me when I say a lot of them aren't really even fans. What im talking about (mostly) is the people who literally have never had any interest in SW there whole lives until they see all the hip-to-hate retro propaganda on the internet and they then watch the movies on like spike tv or something JUST SO THEY CAN participate in the whole fad. I swear to god I have seen people do this. I use to be friends with someone who did exactly this. This was a kid who never in his life took any kind of interest in SW in any way before he got to be a senior in high school and started frequenting youtube and imdb and the like. This kid actually would go to the mall and buy retro style TESB t-shirts so he could wear them around and tell people how he finds SW "shallow and pedantic". I sat for YEARS and watched as he made a complete and total mockery of the thing I grew up with and invested my heart and soul in and loved all my life.

    We would be in the living room across from the sound of him typing away on his keyboard for literally hours fighting with people and (a lot of the times) trolling people who were actual SW fans. And he would pull out all the stops. He would take the arguments as far as they could possibly go. He would go so deep it got tot the point where when ever he would show someone what he was doing or what he was talking about EVERYONE would say to him "umm...you do realize these are pg rated movies that kids love right?" Keep in mind now this was a person who saw the movies ONCE on spike tv and he watched them JUST so he could be like the pretentious, smug little hipsters that made him laugh and smile so much on the message boards. Of course he honed his skills by going to places like youtube and memorizing any scenes he might reference just so he could learn how to bash them but for the most part he only ever watched them once. A lot of us useto wonder if he even knew that all he was doing was acting like "comic book guy" from the simpsons. I useto sit and go back and fourth with him for hours and I would see as clear as day that whenever I would stump him all he would do is go online and search for hours until he could piece together some kind of counter argument of why SW is trash and GL is the devil. It was so blatant that he was ONLY in it to be apart of the bashing. And a lot of people (mostly a lot of casual fans) just really honestly do think that the only way to be apart of the modern coultural phenomenon of star wars is to assume this image of the pretentious, smug movie expert who "knows better maan".

    My point is that this IS something that goes on. There are people like this and it was all created as a side affect of the stubborn, obstructionist hateboy movement against anything with lucas's name attached to it. A lot of these people wont admit it but them need to purge there obsession by discrediting and destroying the thing that they are obsessed with, in this case Star Wars. They WANT to hate these movies.

    George Lucas himself said it best: "They already hate it. They are only going to go watch it so that they can say they saw it..."

    And boy is that the truth! That is (sadly at this point) exactly what it is.

    And BTW you misunderstand me when I say the OOT is the best quality. What I mean is the thing (rightfully so) is presented by lucas a something that can only be properly watched on a tube tv. because thats all that that old version was ever even meant to be seen on besides a movie screen because thats all that existed back then (in the 70' and 80's). Personally I absolutely LOVE that lucas did it that way. You want to watch the unfinished version of the movie (only to spite me) so bad? Well then watch it the only way it is able to be watched, on a tube tv. You want to see the version that was restored and completed? Go watch the actual, official version of the film that I spent millions of dollars and blood and sweat restoring.
  16. Samnz Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 3
    Yeah, it made over a billion. That says something. It says there were many people who liked it, because after two previous installments people knew what expected them. That doesn't mean there aren't a lot of other people who disliked it.
    Every movie is liked and disliked simultanously, it's only natural. George nailed it years ago:
    "But just like the other Star Wars movies, for every person who likes Episode I, there will be two or three who hate it, or who won't see it and couldn't care less about the whole thing."

    The only thing that irritates me with movies like Twilight or the Prequel Trilogy or Transformers, if your want, is the level of hate these movies generate in some people.
    Disliking a movie is one thing, hating is something else, more pathetic. There are plenty of movies I dislike ("bad movies"), but that's it for me. I don't care for these movies anymore, I don't visit websites to trash them, I don't try to convert others to fellow haters. I just leave it behind. It's over, not my cup of tea.
    That's the reason why I can't help but wonder if the movies these people pretend to "hate" so much, didn't touch them on their very soul in some unconscious way.
    Valairy Scot and obi-rob-kenobi4 like this.
  17. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Wow, you're really grasping for straws now. How about you actually prove the babble you're spouting instead of going "LOLZ I SWEAR TO GOD I'VE SEEN IT HONEST!" Otherwise I'm going to assume this is typical nonsense. Prove to me that there are prequel bashers that have never seen a SW movie in their life who have this whole deep seeded agenda to be Meanies to GL.

    And I'm not Going to reply to your nonsense about the OOT getting a proper release. Seriously, stop embarrassing yourself.
  18. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    I prefer the original versions of the OT, and that's coming from a person who thinks the prequels are underrated. I wholeheartedly agree that lumping all who are critical of the movies in with the haters is counter-productive. AOTC particularly, I think, didn't utilise it's full potential. You only have to watch the deleted scenes to get an idea of what could have been. The idea was there, but the execution was a bit disappointing. The other five movies, however, I am extremely satisfied with. Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith are up there with the OT for me. TPM has a mythical quality that I think a lot of modern films fail to capture. Attack of the Clones has some good moments, and while the characterisation is a little weak, I can see where Lucas was coming from with what the characters symbolically represent. Revenge of the Sith was masterful, but I usually watch it with the deleted scenes. I can't believe they left out Anakin and Palpatine discussing the changes to the consitution, that was a great scene. An aspect of the prequels that I think is unfairly dismissed is what they do for the other movies in the saga. Lucas truely complemented each chapter with the others brilliantly.
    Having said that I prefer the originals, I am happy with my '06 dvd versions. I completely understand why people want the originals restored, however. I tend to watch the blurays for the prequels and the originals for the OT.
  19. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    My only response is, why are you letting someone like that bother you enough to type five paragraphs about him? Sheeple who neither can think for themselves nor have any desire to do so--in fact, have an absolute disdain for original thought because original thoughts would not allow him to "fit in" with the "hipsters" or "be cool"--are not worth the time or energy it takes to be irritated with them.

    Such a person might, however, be worth a good joke about being so totally lacking in cerebral matter that he must allow himself to be a hipster puppet.

    I don't know that there are prequel bashers who "have never seen a SW movie in their life" who have an agenda to be mean to Lucas, but are you really denying that there are very nasty people out there who have been horrible to Lucas to the point of threatening him and Katie? I don't think those people represent the large majority of people who dislike the prequels by any means, but I'm surprised that you seem to be denying that they exist at all.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Sep 16, 2012
  20. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    I don't doubt that such comments exist, but I've yet to see someone make a threat to GL's life in a literal sense. Unless we're taking trolls at their word now? Really though, the majority of times I see comments about "Lucas raping childhoods," comes from people mocking what they think the bashers sound like. A lot of the nastier comments are either tongue in cheek or trolling.
  21. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I just wish criticism could be limited to actually critiquing someone's work without the need for personal attacks or insults. It's very common to see George Lucas accused of being lazy, greedy, or a hack. Now, I certainly think it's fair to criticize him for doing something in particular if his stated reason is money, but I just don't see how personal insults further the conversation. (And, to be fair, this goes both ways -- there's no point in Lucas telling people to "grow up" either.) But more troubling to me is how people won't let things go. Like the comment I saw not too long ago (you might remember this anakinfansince1983) where someone on a gaming forum said that Hayden Christensen's house was an eye-sore and someone should bomb it. Seriously, I just don't get it. It had been over six years since Christensen was in Star Wars when that comment was made.

    Or, heck, go type in "George Lucas should" into google and see what you get. Or watch the way RLM slanders his character -- that's not tongue in cheek or trolling. He does it to further his theories and paint his own narrative. And I find it rather disgusting.

    There'd be no Star Wars without Lucas. So even though I don't much like everything he's done with the franchise (The Clone Wars are a big example -- although I don't actively dislike them either), I am thankful to have the parts I do like and I appreciate him for it.

    Edit: In regards to the "George Lucas raped my childhood meme" while now it has certainly become more tongue-in-cheek, it came across as much more sincere back when the prequels were being released. Do I need to link to the "George Lucas Raped our Childhood" song of those two guys standing outside of the movie theater for Episode III? It was featured in the People vs. George Lucas documentary. And heck, they even referenced this again in one of the youtube comments for the song:


    We wanted to show that even though we were saying our childhoods were ravaged, we we're technically still fans...so thus we joked about still buying the crap Lucas puts out. In reality we don't own any of the prequels or special editions on DVD. But I do still have my original Death Star Droid action figure!
    chriswaffle in reply to EntropicMisanthropic 3 months ago 7 [IMG]
    Last edited by PiettsHat, Sep 16, 2012
  22. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Exactly, @PiettsHat. I'm always shocked by the way some of the fandom treats RLM as the second coming of Christ, when the reality is that he's a guy my age who still behaves the same way I see third graders behaving on the playground. I have no problem stating that someone like that needs to grow up--but it's the behavior that is the problem, not his opinion of the movies.

    And threatening to bomb someone's house for any reason is too disgusting to even dignify with further comment. If I were Christensen's security detail, I'd pull the IP and report it. At least.
  23. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Unfortunately that seems to apply to a lot of people my age.
    obi-rob-kenobi4 likes this.
  24. Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    I've come across a number of people that have made very nasty personal remarks against Peter Jackson about his LotR films, one person went so far as to say that PJ should be brought on trial for Crimes against Humanity.
    If you look around you will probably find similar comments directed against Nolan, Spielberg, Rami, Singer etc.

    I think that in recent years it is not enough to say you just disliked something, instead you say you HATED it. Or it is not enough to say you liked something, it is now THE BEST FILM EEEVVER!!!
    Hyperbole has become quite a common feature when discussing things like movies. Sadly this tends to derail proper discussion.

    In this instance, using the extreme opinions of a few to dismiss the opinion of a larger group is wrong and also lazy.
    It is equally bad to claim "Those that dislike the PT are mindless Lucas Haters" as to claim "Those that like the PT are mindless Lucas Fanboys."
    It serves no good purpose and derails the discussion.

    So lets follow this site's excellent rule, FILMS, not FANS.

    As for the topic, Lucas retiring.
    Gene Roddenberry created Star Trek and many good episodes, esp in the original series.But the first season of TNG, where he had much control over what happened, is rather weak. I find some of his ideas, like the idea that humans had evolved to the point where there never was any conflict or disagreement between humans, rather bad when it comes to creating interesting drama.
    Star Trek has contiuned after Gene and some of the movies and TV-shows were totally at odds with what his vision for Star Trek was but I found them to be very good. Gene's had a gift and created something good but others have been able to expand on that and make great films/shows.

    Would this happen with SW and Lucas? I have no idea but it is possible.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
  25. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    It does, but I don't think expecting a middle-aged man to behave more maturely than my 7-year-old is too much to ask. I also expect that people will see this overgrown child for what he is, and obviously many in the fandom do not, which is sad.
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