Saga George Lucas retiring from SW films (What does this mean for the future of SW?)

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by fistofan1, Jan 17, 2012.

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  1. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Yep. But a disclaimer at the first of the film, before the Lucasfilm logo, with George saying:
    "These films, no matter how brilliant and great they are, have nothing to do with my Jar Jar and steppin in poop. Thank you and enjoy the show."

    Seriously, all they would have to do is just make the opening sequence somewhat different or just have PR stating they're not a part of the Main Saga. Then just get on with it.

    Personally, I would love to see more "Lucas approved" SW features but I dont think it's going to happen.
    Then again, with Kathy Kennedy stepping to the helm maybe she worked out an agreement to have future SW films so long as they dont impede on the main storyline?
    Last edited by ShaneP, Sep 10, 2012
  2. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Serves him right for walking around barefoot.

    And he probably tracked it all over the Queen's ship.

    She would have been within her rights to have him executed for that.
  3. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    Yyou can say that again, the guy has creat so many jobs & the brand itself transends many genres. I don't see how people could be so selfish & dislike the guy.
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  4. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4

    For this post, you get 200 co signs, 3 phase 1 clonetrooper action figures, 2 Darth Maul pez despesers & Padme Amidala swimsuit calender before she got pregnant. You are the sith!
  5. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4

    Thank you. Its only the truth.

    It would surprise bashers how many SW fans agree that such excessive criticism and negative social conditioning is a big part of the problem we are all so sick and tired of. SW fans are sick of this futile, stubborn, obstructionist mentality hateboys have with regards to anything with lucas's name attached to it.

    If people would just pay attention, put two and two together and thought critically about it they would see that it is no longer worth giving these bashers the benefit of the doubt anymore. They dont like the films. They like bashing the films. Nothing more.

    The Saga gets released together in one box set in full 1080P for the first time and gos on sale on amazion.com for an excellent price and what happens? The page gets DDoS attacked for days by a bunch of laud, crazy, hateful people who have the audacity to call themselves "fans". The comment section gets filled with spam, hate rants and actual death threats to Lucas and his daughter katy and turns into a complete warzone. In the meantime the page cant even load up to any normal person simply trying to use amazons service to place an order as a result. And then you hear them bragging about how they crashed the page for a few hours. How petty.

    All this and the Blu-ray STILL ended up being the best selling blu-ray in the history of the format and recently wound up getting even more "blu-ray of the year" awards. Meanwhile the pretentious little snots are throwing party's on 4chan and OT.com celebrating the fact that they brought the amazon page down for like one half a day. The same way they celebrated when they finally after 14 years got the rottentomatos score for TPM down slightly below the "fresh" line. Thats how petty they are at this point.

    All this craziness and still they didn't change anything. They didn't stop any 8-12 year olds from walking in to target and buying an anakin notebook and lunchbox. They didnt stop anyone from smiling at a bumper sticker of yoda holding his lightsaber. They certainly didn't stop ANY sales of the blu-ray, if anything they helped to raise awareness of it to the general public. And most of all they didn't stop millions and millions of people all over the country and all over the world from going out and seeing TPM's 2nd return to the big screen 14 years after its original release and in the netflix instant streaming age of all times!

    The hateful youtube reviews and blogs and forced memes did not and will not do anything but promote stubborn, smug, ignorance. When one even placates this pretentious anti-prequel fad they are no better than the trolls on sites like 4chan.

    I (like many other actual SW fans around the net) simply no longer know what it is that these stubborn extremists, and the pretentious college film class snobs who look up to them, wish or hope to accomplish anymore.

    People need to wake up and realise that in this day and age, takeing on the role of a SW basher is nothing more than takeing on the role of a petty, smug, obstructionist with a negative, spiteful, hateful agenda. Plain and simple.

    Im sorry but Im not the bad guy, the ones who actively boycott SW every day on the internet and every time it is released in any way shape or form are the ones who are the bad guys.
    Last edited by obi-rob-kenobi4, Sep 13, 2012
  6. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Films, not fans. -Darth Boba.
    Last edited by DarthBoba, Sep 13, 2012
  7. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I honestly don't think that Lucas revising and re-editing his films is all that unprecedented. Shakespeare and Tolkien did the same things. Shakespeare, for example, revised King Lear in order to re-present the play's major themes and its major characters (such as Lear, Kent, etc.). The original King Lear was printed in the 1608 Quarto 1 text while the new version appeared in the First Folio in 1623 as a result of Shakespeare being motivated by theatrical demands and his own sense of aestheticism.

    In terms of Tolkien, he also altered The Hobbit in order to make it align better with The Lord of the Rings. These changes also aren't very well known as I recall a conversation I had (on this very site, no less) with someone who said they had read both The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings multiple times but had never known this fact.

    In the end, I think such decisions are best left up to the individual artist. I'm not a fan of every change Lucas has made (the "No" in ROTJ springs to mind), but I have no input in the films. I'm merely a fan and I think it would be presumptuous of me to tell an artist how he should handle his work. I can critique it and offer my opinion, but my blood, sweat, and tears haven't gone into it and thus, I don't think I have any particular authority to decide the art's fate.
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  8. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Lol at the old, tired TOLKIEN DID IT TOO LOLZ "point." Yes, he indeed altered his work, but the original, unaltered text IS available in the best available quality in stores and online in the various annotated editions. It isn't being actively suppressed in the most petty and childish ways possible. There is an objective difference.
  9. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Not really. For me, the best quality available would be for the original Hobbit text to be released in its own book, not simply appended to the annotated version. Lucas basically did the same thing with the OOT then by releasing it on the 2004 DVDs from the laserdisc transfers.

    Plus, that doesn't address the issue of Shakespeare. The revised version is performed today, so audiences don't really get to see the original versions anymore.

    I just can't agree that the OOT is actively being suppressed when I have it sitting in my desk drawer should I want to view it. It's not actively being promoted, and it is certainly not in the best possible quality, but Lucas isn't unique in that respect.
  10. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    No one cares what would be the best for you. It's in it's best possible format (text) which is what matters. You can easily read the original Hobbit in the annotation if you wish. You're trying to conflate text and cinema as if they have the same kinds of standards. We both know they don't, so stop being silly.

    As for Shakespeare, I haven't fully addressed this as I confess to not knowing all the details. Still, I'd argue they're very different things as, in many ways, each theatrical performance of any play could be seen as its own separate work with its own spin on direction and actors. Again, different from film.
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  11. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Someone's feisty. Well, then, I suggest that you also recall that the same applies to you.

    I'm not being silly. Being released in an annotated version is not the same as having its own proper release. Plus, you are forgetting that Tolkien himself never released the original Hobbit again in his lifetime. The Annotated Hobbit was released in 2002. Tolkien died in the 1970s. To give him credit for what someone else did after his death makes it an unfair comparison. When George Lucas dies, I doubt that if the OOT is released that you will give him credit. Thus, it is perfectly fair to compare Tolkien to Lucas. Lucas himself never did anything that Tolkien didn't.

    Different for you perhaps. But I hope you see why I don't think that the issue is at all "objective." It's still a highly subjective analysis that each of us makes. You are trying to separate out the play and insist that the preservation of the play is somehow intrinsically different than a film. I don't buy it.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  12. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    I just have a hard time taking these, "arguments," seriously. Honestly, I feel that the fact that you have to go to different mediums from past centuries to find a situation even remotely comparable only serves to straighten my view on how unique and ridiculous this issue (which Lucas HIMSELF created) is. You might have a stronger point here if you actually offered up cinematic examples. You know, since we're talking about film and all.
  13. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    You know the movie Philadelphia (Tom Hanks and Denzel Washington, won a few Oscars)? It still hasn't been released on Blu-Ray. It's out on DVD, true, but the issue with O-OT fans is that it hasn't been preserved in the highest quality possible. Otherwise, I don't see what the issue would be with VHS.

    Or, as a personal example, the anime series Monster has never had any sort of home video release. The first few episodes were released on DVD, true, but that's only 15 episodes out of 74. They're available on youtube and Netflix, but that's hardly the best quality available. Even the manga is no longer available -- two of the volumes (used) don't sell for anything less than $90 (for a $10 manga). The accompanying novel has also never been released in English.

    Plus, I hardly see why the age or medium matters. We are talking about artistic preservation. People get on Lucas' case for this, but completely ignore that, in his lifetime, Tolkien did the exact same thing. Your original argument stated that Lucas was somehow unique in not preserving the original versions of his work. I have merely presented examples of other famous artists who did the exact same thing. Cinema is not a more important or artist pursuit than literature or plays, after all.
  14. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Philadelphia isn't on BluRay? Is there a specific reason? Is there evidence to suggest it'll never get a release or that the filmmakers don't want it released? Otherwise I don't see why it won't be released sometime soon. Jaws only just got one after all.

    Monster as I recall had licensing issues which prevented the rest of the series from being released stateside. Nothing to do with active suppression as both the manga and anime are readily available in Japan. Plus the anime did get a full showing on TV awhile back and the manga WAS released completely before the license lapsed. Again, not comparable.
  15. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    @Heero_Yuy

    In regards to Philadelphia, I'm not sure why it hasn't been released on Blu-Ray (I actually found this out because I wanted to purchase it as a present for my father -- it's his favorite film). I haven't been able to find any information about it (even Wikipedia has nothing), so I can't say why it hasn't been released. But it's a pretty famous film and an Academy Award winner so it did surprise me a bit. We just watch the VHS, though, so it's not a huge deal.

    Also, the Monster manga and anime being released in Japan is nice and all, but that certainly doesn't help those of us who live abroad. Likewise, the anime, although it showed on television, has never had a complete DVD release in the US. I don't think O-OT fans would be all that happy if Lucas just showed it on TV once or twice but didn't make it available for home video release.

    You keep saying active suppression. The OOT isn't being actively suppressed. It was released on DVD in 2004 and is widely available. Has it been released in highest quality available? No, but that is a world of difference from being actively suppressed. I can go and buy the VHS on Amazon for $5 right now. Contrast this with Monster -- Volume 6 is over $90.

    The problem with these comparisons, too, is that there is often (as you point out) publishing and licensing issues to work out. I picked Tolkien and Shakespeare, in particular, because they seemed (like Lucas) to have the most control over their work but, by contrast, weren't lambasted for not releasing or preserving the original versions themselves. I feel that the harsh criticism Lucas receives is curious considering that Tolkien does not receive nearly the same amount of vitriol for not re-releasing the Hobbit in his lifetime.
    Last edited by PiettsHat, Sep 13, 2012
  16. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    For what it's worth, if we truly can't read or experience those early versions of Shakespeare's work then I do consider it to be a tragedy. Any works or writings by him should be preserved and it is sad that we can't read them.

    Also, I consider shutting down Star Wars showings that were to preview the OOT to be active suppression. You keep harping about VHS copies still existing, but even ignoring the picture quality issues, almost all cassette versions available were pan and scan. So, even then you're not getting the proper original versions as I consider format to be important to any film.
    Drewton likes this.
  17. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I agree. However, I would also state that I don't consider it ethically, morally, or artistically dubious of Shakespeare to have made revisions and promoted the revised versions. The same goes for Tolkien and Lucas. Personally, I would like to see Lucas release a restored O-OT, but I don't consider that he has done anything wrong if he doesn't.

    I don't think so. That's just good business sense. Lucasfilm would come down on their backs whether they showed the Special Editions or the O-OT. What you have to consider is that these showings are often public venues associated with businesses. By using Star Wars to attract customers, they are necessarily going to influence people's perceptions about Lucasfilm. If a restaurant and bar known to have a large population of drunks (or thought to be rather seedy) promoted the film showing to attract customers and a family went there, it could very well associate their perception of Lucasfilm and other Star Wars products. They might wonder, for instance, if Star Wars is really child-friendly if it associates with such businesses. That's just as an example, but I don't think it has to do with the O-OT or even Star Wars in particular. There's the reputation and marketing of the brand to consider. Not to mention the fact that a Lucasfilm product is being used by others to make money with none of the proceeds going back to the studio.

    As for the VHS -- yes the quality could be much, much better and isn't up to the original standards, but I don't think Lucas is under any obligation to see that fans have access to a copy of the O-OT in its original format. Would it be nice of him? Yes, but I don't think there's anything wrong if he doesn't. After all, even if he releases the films on Blu-ray, then that still wouldn't be up to the "original" standards since film has higher resolution than Blu-ray.
    Last edited by PiettsHat, Sep 13, 2012
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  18. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    Do you have any more of those calendars? :p
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  19. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    Ya know you wanna sit there and hold your nose up at people and try to talk about "tragedy" and make your own overblown victim complex and frame George Lucas as this big bad greedy evil guy over something so petty and silly yet you completely ignore all the facts. You dont care at all about the fact that there exists a completely ridiculous obstructionist movement against EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING SW that ever gets released. You like to think of it as some kind of grass roots movement when all it really is is a bunch of petty loud mouth angry young people hopping onto a hate trend. A mob mentality. What hateboys have created is a retro/hipster trend of smug people being proud of their stubborn willful ignorance absolutely out of pure spite.

    George Lucas is one of the nicest human beings in this country. He is a liberal philanthropist who signed a pledge to donate HALF of all his money to charity and education while putting THE OTHER HALF right back into the film industry inventing and pioneering almost every single BASIC technique needed to produce EVERY superhero/action summer blockbuster released today. He has done more for the film industry than pathetic, petty obstructionist hateboys could ever even imagine (if they even cared in the slightest anyways).

    What you actively participate in is a pathetically ignorant, shockingly hollow, morally bankrupt, blind hate trend. In my other post I just described to you how a bunch of these people actually broke the law and ddos attacked the amazon page just so people couldn't buy the blu-ray for a half a day. And yet still you have the gall to regurgitate the same tired anti-star wars, anti-George Lucas soundbites rather than think for one second how petty and disgusting it is that something like this gos on every day despite ALL the good Lucas and SW has done. The hateboys and obstructionist are what give a bad name to SW fans everywhere to say the least.

    In reality George Lucas gave the OOOT obsessors exactly what it was that they wanted in 2004. He gave the smug, obnoxious little punks and hipsters and criminals the exact thing that they were illegally selling and shearing and downloading and bootlegging and he gave it to them on a convenient dvd. And no matter what you try to say YES it was the best quality possible. For THAT particular version of the films it is the only way to watch them. That particular version was not ever restored/changed to be able to properly watch on a 50'' flat screen. It was/is only watchable on a tube tv. Thats the whole point Lucas was trying to make when he released it in 2004. You wanna see it so bad? Ok tell ya what ill do Ill make it so you dont have to be forced to watch it on vhs anymore and you dont even have to be forced to watch it on a computer screen anymore. You can watch it on a dvd on a big screen tube tv. Flat screen, HD tvs did not even exist when this was made, it was made to be seen on a movie projector or a tube tv screen. Thats it. And thats what it was that was being illegally traded and thats what it was that you got alongside the finished version of the movie for no extra charge.

    Lucas proved how petty the vocal minority of obstructionists are and how they will never be happy because they will never be able to purge their stubborn unhealthy obsession no matter what they are offered. Despite more than a decade of absolutely relentless, constant attacks by these "good ol boys" SW is stronger and more popular than ever. They will never be able to hurt it. Ever. 50 years from now no one will remember "han shot first guyz!!" but many will still remember Star Wars.
    Last edited by obi-rob-kenobi4, Sep 13, 2012
  20. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    Needs MORE sound-bytes and less argument....

    (sarcasm over)
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  21. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    ^ Exactly. I really try to remain civil, but it is difficult when the Pro Lucas side actively makes things up in an impotent attempt to seem like poor victims...

    I often wonder why I don't post here often anymore, but then Obi-rob and others show up with such "points" and I'm reminded immediately.
  22. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    OK, let me see if I'm understanding this: You told PiettsHat that "no one cares what would be best for [her]" and then told her that she was silly, but you're now complaining that everyone is attacking you while you try to remain civil?

    Seriously?

    Lucas was not satisfied with what he released in 1977-1983 for various reasons; among which included that he did not feel the story was completed, and he did not have the technology or finances at the time to do all he wanted with the films. Given that they are his work, I'd say he's within his rights to release whatever format he wants, and as far as "active suppression"--I lean towards "probably not," he's just in a position to not have to sell something that he isn't proud of, that he doesn't feel is his best work, given that there are enough customers out there who will buy the work that he does feel is his best. And if I were in his shoes, I would not inconvenience myself to release a version of my films that I felt were incompleted when the loudest voices of the people who wanted those versions released, were nasty about it and insulting to me personally.
    BoromirsFan and obi-rob-kenobi4 like this.
  23. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

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    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    I am not sure what is the relevance of bringing up things like the original Hobbit, or anime series, because even if each of those cases were perfectly analogous to SW, just because this sort of revisionism happened to Star Wars, The Hobbit, anime series, and Shakespeare, doesn't make it right or ideal. I might argue that ALL of these deserve release, or at least that fans of each have valid reasons to desire and argue for the release of each. However, I'm a fan of SW, and this is a SW forum, and I'm sympathetic to the cultural aspects of this argument (being a 90s-era fan), and the original materials and creator are still around and calling the shots (unlike Shakespeare or Tolkien). So, it makes sense for me to promote the "SW theatrical versions" cause.
    Last edited by Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn, Sep 13, 2012
  24. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Completly serious. I accused Piett'sHat of not looking at this objectively. I've been accused of promoting a hate filled agenda. I'm not playing a victim here, but there is a definite difference.
  25. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I'd say there's a definite difference between the statements "Nobody cares what you think" and "You're not looking at this objectively," especially since you are in no position to speak for "everybody" and therefore are in no position to tell her that "nobody" cares what would be best for her. That along with telling her that she's "silly" is an attack; "you're not looking at this objectively" is not.

    If "You're not looking at this objectively" is what you meant, why didn't you say that? Your statement meant something completely different altogether.

    I haven't seen anyone accuse you of promoting a "hate-filled agenda" either, but by all means quote it back to me if I missed it.
    BoromirsFan likes this.
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