Speculation George Lucas says "I don't really have much to do."

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Darth Chiznuk, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    Well, I for one, despite my own loss, was glad for him when he said he wasn't making any more Star Wars becsause he was sick and tired of all the people criticizing him. And it's not just "the fans" but the writers of sitcoms -- Big Bang Theory -- relentlessly bash him not only for the PT but for the Clone Wars as well.
  2. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    [face_sick] I forbid you to bring up that godawful show ever again!
  3. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    Exactly! When you watch the Saga in the proper order, this is as clear as day... yet time and time again people trot it out as if it's some kind of major continuity error.
  4. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    Sorry, I actually like the show depsite their bashing of Star Wars. I think the portrayal of nerds -- and I am one too -- is pretty spot-on in most cases. It really makes me laugh. In fact I'm wondering how long before they reference D-Day and Episode 7.
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  5. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    Everyone's a nerd here. :) I really can't stand the show, but since you like it, I'll shut up about it. With apologies.
  6. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    No need for apolgies and I wouldn't ask you to shut up about it -- your speech is free. :) Everyone has their opinion, and TV shows are no different. For instance Two and Half Men has been popular for years and I hate it.
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  7. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I don't wish to offend anyone, but for the record I'm with you on this one, Yubnub. My sister keeps trying to get me to watch it, but I've seen more than enough to know that it really isn't my cup of tea. But then again I don't like any sitcoms of the last two or three decades, so I'm probably not the nerd they're looking for.
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  8. Panakas_Dawg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2004
    star 5
    BBT is a little too hip for its own good. Bits are funny, but I've never made it through a show. Two and a Half Men has never been good...until Sheen drank some Tiger Blood and did a crate of cocaine.
  9. Han Shot First Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2012
    star 2
    That's not his job anymore!
  10. Panakas_Dawg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2004
    star 5
    It's like this:

    "So, in this scene, Darth Tarantula has built a lightsaber-nunchaku..."
    "Darth Heinous."
    "What?"
    "Darth Heinous. That's the name."
    "Okay...So, each blade is a different color..."
    "The Sith only use red."
    "But this has been modified..."
    "No, I think red."
    "Okay, red."
  11. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    They are scenes/dialogue which give the reasonable (not emotional) impression of a different scenario than what ended up being cannon, suggesting the author had a different scenario in mind until it came time to fill in the details.
  12. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    I know, but if the author had decided they were brother and sister at that point, it's highly questionable if he would have written it that way.

    Again, if Lucas had always conceived of Anakin and Obi Wan meeting when Anakin was a 9 year old kid, do you really think he would have written Obi Wan's speech that way?

    "Master Yoda, I gave Qui-Gon my word. I will train Anakin, without the approval of the council if I must."

    . mmhmm. It's a stretch, especially since Luke never had any of these images/feelings and was right there with his sister. His line in ROTJ "I never knew her" implied an understanding that Leia did.

    He didn't admit to being dishonest, he outright said that what he told Luke was true. (from a certain point of view). And he was talking about Vader betraying and murdering Luke's father, not about all the other false implications. "he didn't hold with your father's ideals...thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved" implies a much closer relationship between Owen and Anakin then was implied in the prequels.

    In any case, as it turns out, most the instances named WERE written with different scenarios in mind as Lucas and his original producers openly admit, so it's not even really open for debate. He actually did "make it up as he went along."
  13. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I'm not arguing that the intentions for many of those things changed over time. My point is that if you watch the movies in chronological order and try to separate fact from fiction (in other words what you know about the moves from the movies themselves), you'll see that none of those things are actually problems at all. It's only when you watch the OT first that any of them seem odd, because you expect them to mean one thing when they end up meaning another. The only legitimate continuity problem between the PT and the OT is Vader's line, "Obi-Wan once thought as you did", and that one doesn't get brought up nearly as often as some of those others which are easily explainable and actually make perfect sense which viewed in the correct order.
    Last edited by Mystery_Roach, Dec 5, 2012
  14. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    See, this is what I mean. What difference does that make? When you watch it knowing that they are siblings, it only adds another layer of humor and irony to the scene. It isn't that weird because we know why she's doing it, but it's still weird enough to laugh at.

    Again, it doesn't matter because there's nothing to question when you watch it chronologically. Anakin was already a great pilot when they met. That's indisputable. What reason would Obi-Wan have for mentioning Anakin's age, when it wasn't a factor in this issue. If anything, the word "already" implies that Anakin was young.

    I'm not disputing that Obi-Wan gave Qui-Gon his word. That's made very clear in the movie. But he didn't have to. He did take it upon himself to train Anakin, against the wishes of the Council and Yoda's misgivings, and when I get to ROTJ after seeing that I don't question it one bit, because there's no reason for him to elaborate further. Obi-Wan is finally admitting the mistake he made by taking Anakin as his Padawan after he was too old to handle the separation from his mother or receive the preliminary training from Yoda that the other Jedi receive.

    Is it really so hard to believe that Leia had a stronger connection through Force with her mother and Luke had a stronger connection through the force with his Father? Makes sense to me, and again when you watch it chronologically it's very easy to accept without question.

    The "certain point of view" line was basically just Obi-Wan excusing himself for lying (and Lucas making a point about how to view these movies). Once Obi-Wan committed to lying to Luke about his father, the lie grew to encompass Anakin and Owen's relationship as well as the lightsaber. Oh well, couldn't be helped. He told Luke what he needed to to get Luke started on his journey (even though it didn't work at first).

    Yes many of the details were made up as he went along, but so what. For a story that was made out of order without knowing so many of the details beforehand, it's remarkably consistent when viewed in the intended order, and that's all that matters in the end.
    Last edited by Mystery_Roach, Dec 5, 2012
  15. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    While I might disagree about the "perfect sense" it makes, I'm not saying these are continuity problems. I'm saying they are pointers to Lucas making major details up as he goes along (which turns out to actually be true) Whether or not they can be explained or make sense when watched in order is beside my original point. It's a mystery to me why people don't understand how other people could think made these things up after the fact. He did!
  16. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Listen, if it all makes perfect sense to you that's great. I'm NOT talking about continuity errors. I'm NOT talking about how well he made the new ideas "fit" with the old films. I'm just talking about indicators that they were in fact NEW ideas and obviously not something he had lying around in his notes, as per the ORIGINAL discussion
  17. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    Oh well I'm not arguing that he made most of those things up after that fact. Lucas is well known to always be revising and thinking of new ideas. That's just the way he works. To me it only goes to show how brilliant and creative he is to be able to make it all work as well as it does, without ever taking the easy way out of the corners that he backed himself into when he made the OT.

    And the reason I disputed the things you listed is because you referred to them as contradictions, which they aren't. Yes, Lucas changed many of his ideas along the way... I don't think anyone here ever said otherwise. All I was saying is that none of those things actually point to the fact it was done that way if you watch the movies in the correct order. It's only if you watch the OT first and know the order in which the films were made that you would even notice any of those things.
    Last edited by Mystery_Roach, Dec 5, 2012
  18. Frank_TJ_Mackey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 6, 2000
    star 3
    I'm sure that, originally, Lucas never imagined having Anakin as a nine years old to start off the prequels. I don't know why he thought that it would be a great idea, since it doesn't help the story (especially the relationship with Padme). Having Anakin & Luke roughly the same age during the course of three movies would have been so much more Joseph Campbell's like. With both characters going through the same trials at roughly the same age.

    What happens in TPM could have been told in the opening crawl of Episode 1.
    Last edited by Frank_TJ_Mackey, Dec 5, 2012
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  19. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    The reason Lucas had to begin with Anakin at 9 years old is because being taken away from his mother at that age is the single most important thing that started him on the path to the Dark Side. All of the issues that he deals with in the other movies begin with that crucial event.
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  20. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    That didn't need to be shown. That could have been alluded to.
    Last edited by Cantina Bassist, Dec 5, 2012
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  21. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I strongly disagree. I think it's vitally important to see Anakin at the beginning of his character arc. TPM had the task of planting the seeds for everything that followed, and sometimes I think people get so focused on superficial elements that they don't like about that movie that they fail to notice how many important story and character elements are really there.
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  22. Frank_TJ_Mackey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 6, 2000
    star 3
    The important thing is not being taken away from his mother, but rather is mother's death. Like Owen Lars & Aunt Beru's death.

    Was it important to follow Luke at nine years old? When he learned about the fate of is father, he must have went through a difficult phase too.
    Last edited by Frank_TJ_Mackey, Dec 5, 2012
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  23. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    Luke has a different arc than Anakin. Luke's journey begins in ANH. Anakin's mother's death is a very important event in his life, but leaving her at the age he did is what creates the fear of loss that drives his whole character and causes him to react the way he does when she actually dies.
    Last edited by Mystery_Roach, Dec 5, 2012
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  24. Frank_TJ_Mackey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 6, 2000
    star 3
    Well, apparently....and I'm no EU addict....it's a common thing for a Jedi to leave at that age.......so if it's what drives his character arc.

    The impact was that she died and he was not there to save her, protect her.

    Anyway....if your understanding of the storyline is the right one.....I think that making a whole movie about this was wrong. Especially since the movie did not spend (beside one scene) much time explaning that tragic departure and the void it left in Anakin.

    That's why it could have been told in the opening crawl. "It's a common thing for a Jedi to leave home early and going under the tutelage of a Jedi master. Anakin left, bla bla."...
    Last edited by Frank_TJ_Mackey, Dec 5, 2012
  25. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    I see your point, but I feel it wasn't necessary to show the entirety of his arc. In Episode I's case, it was actually detrimental: do we really feel that Anakin is upset that he's leaving his mother? I didn't. Throwaway lines as he is about to leave about not being able to do it & not wanting things to change (the latter was a preposterous statement, btw) didn't correspond with the rest of his actions or the emotions he displayed. The convo with Portman on the ship about missing her didn't seem genuine either.

    I've heard a lot of people say that watching TPM isn't even necessary, because it doesn't have any real bearing on the rest of the story. They might be right. There are a zillion ways it could have been shown that Anakin had been taken from his mother at an early age & he was suffering from the effects of that without literally displaying the event.