Speculation George Lucas says "I don't really have much to do."

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Darth Chiznuk, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. Mystery Roach Chosen One

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    Where are you getting that from? Qui-Gon says specifically that if he had been born in the Republic he would have been identified early, and the Council won't even train him at first because he is too old.

    Star Wars movies are always economical in their storytelling, but that was dealt with pretty explicitly in the scene between Anakin and Padme on the way to Coruscant, and even more so in the scene where he has to leave his mother as well as the scene where he faces the Jedi Council.
    Last edited by Mystery_Roach, Dec 5, 2012
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  2. Mystery Roach Chosen One

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    I wouldn't call anything in the scene between Anakin and his mother before he leaves "throwaway". That's one of the most important scenes in the PT. In what way did that not correspond with the rest of his actions or the emotions he displayed? He was visibly sad from the time he left his mother to the time he got to Naboo. You gave a perfect example in the scene with Padme, but you write that off because it doesn't seem "genuine"? What does that even mean? It sounds like you're just dismissing everything that's important to Anakin's character in TPM because you don't like Jake Lloyd's acting.
  3. Frank_TJ_Mackey Chosen One

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    Well that scene with Anakin and Padme was more about 2 young characters chatting in the schoolyard. In the context of the movie, the scene was necessary. Powerful ? no. First step into what lead to the downfall ? No.

    And for Qui-Gon.....are you telling me that by leaving earlier would have prevent him to fall to the dark side ?

    Luke had some traumatism of his own when he was young and began his traning much more older than Anakin.

    I see your point....but those TPM scenes doesn't help the storyline......and this comes from a guy who prefer TPM to AOTC.
    Last edited by Frank_TJ_Mackey, Dec 5, 2012
  4. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

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    I found that scene flat. I didn't see a mother & child parting ways, I saw two actors reciting their lines. Same situation on the ship. If those scenes spoke to you, that's great, but I wasn't feeling it. So, by not nailing those scenes, it pretty much makes them expendable or worse. Ymmv.
    Last edited by Cantina Bassist, Dec 5, 2012
  5. Frank_TJ_Mackey Chosen One

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    it's not about Jake Lloyd.....what Anakin went through in TPM is impactul for a nine years old...there's no question about it.

    But it looks to me that 2-3 scenes in TPM doesn't show me this as being that important for the storyline . I mean, the little kid was cruising in Naboo sky and did not look like a someone being sad of leaving mommy.....

    He reacted like any kid would........and producing a whole movie about this was wrong.....
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  6. Mystery Roach Chosen One

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    I'm not sure what you mean by chatting in the schoolyard. Most scenes in Star Wars have multiple functions. The scene with Anakin and Padme on the ship is about establishing a deeper connection between them as well as showing that Anakin is sad because he misses his mother.

    Absolutely. If Anakin had been taken as an infant like Jedi usually are, he would not have fallen to the Dark Side.

    We're never given any reason to believe that Luke was traumatized when he was young, but Yoda was reluctant to train him due to his age as well, and Luke very nearly fell to the Dark Side for similar reasons as Anakin.
  7. Mystery Roach Chosen One

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    When you're flying a starfighter in the middle of a battle, adrenaline takes over and you don't really have time to feel sad at that point. What he went through in that movie had a lasting effect on him though, and is very much the key to understanding his character. If you don't like the movie then so be it, but I don't see how it was wrong to spend the first movie setting up the dominoes that will topple in the next two films. That's what the first act of a trilogy is supposed to do, and TPM actually accomplishes this task in a much better way than ANH, regardless of which is the better movie.
  8. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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    I wonder, would Anakin still have fallen to the dark side if Qui-Gon was still alive and his master? I don't know if anyone has brought this up yet.
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  9. Mystery Roach Chosen One

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    I'm of the strong opinion that he wouldn't have, but I guess we can never know for sure.
  10. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

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    One day we might. When the PT Special Editions come around, anything is possible............
  11. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

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    We've had Infinities with Luke missing the shot in the trench run... it's only a matter of time until we get one where Qui-Gon lives I bet. XD
  12. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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    Taken 3: Rogue Padawan
  13. Frank_TJ_Mackey Chosen One

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    I mean that the scene is about two kids chatting about what they goes through. Have you never been in a schoolyard, kids will talk for talking. Anakin had just left her Mom, sure he was brooding. The scene had no other meaning. It reminded me of Luke talking to Leia in the MF just after Obi-wan's death. But 2 seconds later, he was having fun blasting those tie-fighters. Those scenes are meant to show that those characters have beating hearts, but they are not meant to define them for the rest of their lives (although the death of Obi-Wan was important for Luke, as the DEATH of Shmi was for Anakin. Not leaving her.

    Yes...and Hitler would not have made the decision of invading Poland had he been accepted to the Vienna Academy of Fine Arts ? It's hopefully more complex than that and Anakin had anger in him for multiple reasons, not one simple decision.

    Well...you are correct....we're never given any reason to believe that Luke was traumatized.

    But I assume.....I mean...I can you not ? He was raised by the loving human beings but .....I assume he went through some hard times.........

    However.....it was not meant to be seen in the movie version of this character....even though the whole Father-Son arc is at the center of episode 4-5-6.

    I think that Anakin could have benefited of more screen time as a 20 years old and less for that one impactful event of simply leaving his mother.
    Last edited by Frank_TJ_Mackey, Dec 5, 2012
  14. Mystery Roach Chosen One

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    Hmmmm... It seems to me that perhaps the problem isn't so much Anakin's character arc as it is an issue with (a) not wanting to see a child-centric Star Wars movie, and/or (b) wanting to have spent more time with the same actor playing the character from the beginning, as with Luke.
  15. Frank_TJ_Mackey Chosen One

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    not from me.....it's all about anakin's character arc. I mean, Anakin & Ben friendship is supposed to be one for the ages. It was not shown in the prequel movies. Spending a whole movie about that friendship would have mad the last duel in ROTS and in ANH much more impactful

    I'm not against a movie about a child....but if I watch a trilogy about Hitler....I don't want to spend the first 120 minutes watching him growing up, even though some actions during that time may have an impact on the man that he will become.
    Last edited by Frank_TJ_Mackey, Dec 5, 2012
  16. Mystery Roach Chosen One

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    I do actually think that maybe Lucas spent too much time setting up the animosity and mistrust between Anakin and Obi-Wan and not quite enough on their friendship, but the former is ultimately a little more important, and we do get a sense of the latter at several points in AOTC and ROTS.

    As for the Hitler analogy, well that works if you're just making a trilogy about a soulless evil man who tried to take over the world and was responsible for the Holocaust, but if you're going to make a six film saga with the intent of understanding his motivations and who he truly was, then I don't think it would be unreasonable to spend the first movie dealing with his childhood.
  17. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

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    I think this is where the problem lies with the "show Anakin from childhood" bit. In doing so, he sacrificed the opportunity to flesh out a more important aspect of the story: Anakin's relationship with Obi-Wan. And his gf/wife, for that matter.

    Count, if you're reading this, this is another "misstep" to my mind.
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  18. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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    Episode 1 should have had an Anakin who was in his mid-teens. There may have been a little bit more of a connection if this was the case.
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  19. Frank_TJ_Mackey Chosen One

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    Well....I think that Hitler is lot more interesting as a character than Anakin. As Palpatine was a lot more interesting than Anakin. I think that you read too much into the fact that the saga is about Anakin. Yes Lucas seems to share that point of view, but when he did the original trilogy....Luke was the focus.

    Ultimately, I think that Luke Skywalker's story (through 5 mins of ROTS and 3 movies, maybe 7-8-9) will be as much interesting as Anakin Skywalker's story.

    And I wont miss the part of the story where Luke was shooting womprats for fun and wondering where his father (and mother !) were.

    It's not because you spend 6 movies about a character that it's interesting and complex.

    It's how you do it.

    Personnally, I find Ben's arc much more interesting in the prequels. He goes through multiple up and downs. The prequels are also about the Rise and the Fall of Obi-Wan Kenobi.

    But I guess we will agree/disagree on this all day long.
    Last edited by Frank_TJ_Mackey, Dec 5, 2012
  20. Mystery Roach Chosen One

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    My response to that would be that what we lose in seeing Anakin's friendship with Obi-Wan, we make up for in having a context for their relationship. Qui-Gon was a father figure to both Obi-Wan and Anakin. When he died, Obi-Wan (who was barely a Knight and never even faced the trials thanks to defeating a Sith warrior) had to step in and essentially be a father to a brother he hardly knew... a great responsibility in any case but much more so with someone so powerful. We see in AOTC how much difficulty Obi-Wan has filling this role, and although by ROTS they have become good friends (and brothers once again), the damage is already done.
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  21. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

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    I don't think it's a fair trade off by a long shot, and I disagree that it was competently established by ROTS that there was a true friendship there besides some more cheap dialogue saying so (sorry), but I see where you're coming from.
  22. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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    "You were my brother! I loved you!"
    Besides that line though, we don't really see a brotherly relationship. They kinda come off as old chums.
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  23. Mystery Roach Chosen One

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    Well I hope you're right about Luke's story being as interesting as Anakin's once the ST is complete, but for me it isn't there yet. I won't miss seeing Luke's childhood either because it isn't as essential to his character as what happens once the droids land on Tatooine and turn his life upside down, just as Anakin's chance (read: Force) encounter with Qui-Gon did for him.

    I do find Obi-Wan's arc interesting as well, but it's completely tied to his relationship with Anakin.

    Ultimately for me, Anakin is just a truly fascinating character study, which is what keeps me enthralled with Star Wars more than anything, but I'm cool with agreeing to disagree on this. Every Star Wars fan approaches the saga from their own point of view, and there isn't a thing wrong with that. :)
  24. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

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    .............yeah..............not exactly Butch & Sundance, you know?
  25. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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    If it was Butch & Sundance there would be a very strange love triangle with Padme...
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