Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond' started by Darth Chiznuk, Dec 3, 2012.
Not exactly the only thing that needed to be accomplished in the movie, you know?
Are you going to pretend it wouldn't have helped?
Maybe what it comes down to is that some people need to see and feel these things happening on screen from moment to moment, whereas others are content to read between the lines and concentrate more on the bigger picture. Sort of a Living Force vs. Unifying Force kind of thing. I wouldn't say either view is more right or wrong than the other, and they both have merit. I can see both sides, I just have to argue from my own perspective. It's all good.
If you think that the friendship was established in ROTS through some 3-4 lines....Lucas could have used the same trick with Anakin childhood.
When you watch the last duel......the climax of the whole trilogy........what previous actions should have drove the scene ? The fall out of a legendary friendship & Anakin embracing the dark side and immortality or Anakin's leaving his mother & Anakin embracing the dark side and immortality.
As of now, the last duel works because we dreamt all of our SW geekdom life about that legendary friendship (through ANH and Obi's speech in ROTJ).
It would have been grandiose if Lucas would have focused more on that friendship.
I feel that their relationship was better developed in ROTS than in AOTC where they came off as whiny bickering siblings.
Yes, I am. Because I actually really enjoy the camaraderie of that movie, as well as the progress of that relationship through the three movies.
Hell, the reason I always enjoyed early EU was because I never thought that Luke, Han and Leia got enough bonding on screen.
I mean...if we assume that the first action that drove Anakin's destiny toward the dark side was leaving his mother....and he would have been a great Jedi under different circumstances........what about his quest, his lust for immortality, in order to save the one that he loves. All this was in him from the day the first midichlorians swam in his body !
But I think it'a an interesting concept....and that lust for immortality in order to save the loved ones...would be an interesting concept to explore in the next movies.
Anakin's "lust for power to save the one he loves" develops from his attachment issues. Those attachment issues were formed when was forced to leave his mother at such an early age.
They bash everything. I'd say Chuck was a lot worse (and I actually like that show).
Humm.....the Luke/Han friendship is amazing. I mean the last couple of scenes in ANH are the epitome of a real friendship from the heart. And I will have a fond spot for the way Luke tries to reclaim Han from Jabba in ROTJ. Stand up friendship, unlike Obi-Wan and Anakin who are always talking behind each others back.
"Forced", he wasn't "forced". He did not go in that ship kicking and screaming.
Lust for power to save the one he loves comes from Shmi's death in AOTC.
I did not leave my mother at nine years old, but I personnally would do anything to save her from death.
Unfortunately, we live in the real world...with no Darth Plageuis around.
So I understand the feeling of being unable to save a person close to me from cancer of from being killed.
Leaving at such an early age for work or something would certainly leave me with a whole lot of problem, but looking for immortality would not be one.
What on Urf are you talking about? Luke and Han do nothing but bicker throughout ANH, and at the end of it are merely having an adrenaline rush because they've just destroyed the Death Star. That's not "real friendship from the heart," that's people bonding over having achieved an objective together.
I don't think I would ever describe Obi-Wan and Anakin's relationship as "healthy." That's kind of the point.
well...at least it felt real...unlike anything seen in the prequels....and don't tell me that the scene in ESB ....when Han would do "See you in HELL" anything to save his friend is not real friendship.
And the scene when they say goodbye just before the Hoth battle........man...so much things unsaid/said between two grown-up guys.
Have you guys ever read the original screenplay for return of the jedi? Thank god hey had another writer on there or it would have been terrible. Its on the internet if you search it, im too lazy for a link at the moment.
"Forced" was a poor choice of words, yes. However, Anakin's inability to deal with his mother's death in an appropriate way stems from his attachment issues, which develop from his early separation from his mother.
(Additionally, but beside the point, is the fact that poor parental attachment and/or early separation from the parents is a risk factor for developing poor impulse control, which Anakin also has).
I can't believe that I'm arguing here with people who do not think that Han & Luke friendship is real.
When i was young, that friendship was 50 % of the reasons why I love SW.
I know right. Wouldn't it be annoying if people spent years and years doing nothing but bashing something you love passionately. Wouldn't that just make you want to stab them repeatedly?
My girlfriend is a psychologist and I have to children. I understand that.
However, i personnaly think it was poorly shown in the prequels and that we lost a whole movie because Lucas wanted to showcase that simple trait of character.
It did not.
So, we're to assume that their friendship develops off-camera in between movies. All they do in ANH is squabble, they exchange only a few lines in ESB (about Luke's newfound hobby of investigating meteors, and how Luke has healed well after his ordeal with the wampa). And then all of a sudden Luke wants to go risk his Jedi training against both Yoda's and Obi-Wan's warnings to save Han, because of a vision. If the friendship between those two is so important for the story that Luke wants to risk "becoming an agent of evil," I would have wanted to see considerably more of it, because as it stands, it's mostly off-screen.
it depends if you take all this personnally. Opinions are only that, opinions.
I disagree but i think it's hopeless !
I guess that Obi-Wan's speech in both ANH and ROTJ about his friendship with Anakin was about events off-screen too.
Good. Then you should understand that we didn't "lose a whole movie" and it isn't a "simple trait."
By the way, if your girlfriend shares your appreciation for these films, she might be interested in this report:
Bui, E., Rodgers, R., Chabrol, H., Birmes, P., & Schmitt, L. (2011) Is Anakin Skywalker suffering from borderline personality disorder? Psychiatry Research, 185(1), 299.
It's a bit goofy obviously, but it's a nice little read.
My point is that people seem to expect far more of the Obi-Wan-Anakin relationship than there is to be found in the Luke-Han relationship.
I actually have to agree with this. Most of the development of interpersonal relationships in the Star Wars movies happens off-screen, with the exception of the love stories of course, and even then I'm sure there's a lot we don't see.
But yeah, I'd say it's about the same between the two trilogies.